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Re: [mythsoc] A Greeting from Anne

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  • SusanPal@aol.com
    In a message dated 7/16/2003 2:24:46 PM Pacific Standard Time, ... He s obviously trying to top Gandalf in the smoke-blowing department. ... Oh, I don t know.
    Message 1 of 15 , Jul 16, 2003
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      In a message dated 7/16/2003 2:24:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
      dbratman@... writes:

      > That's a very nice idea, though it sure doesn't look like him ... and why
      > is he blowing soap bubbles from his pipe?
      >

      He's obviously trying to top Gandalf in the smoke-blowing department.

      > There's several factual errors in the writeup, of which "He died in a rest
      > home" is a new one to me, though "As a scholar he lived at the margin of
      > society," which makes him sound like a beggar on the streets, is the most
      > baroque.

      Oh, I don't know. I think scholars are often considered marginal by the
      mainstream -- and poor JRRT was somewhat marginalized in the academy for writing
      fantasy, wouldn't he?

      I imagine he might have fits at seeing himself depicted in an icon, whether
      it looked like him or not. But I *really* liked the trees in the background,
      and I think he'd have liked them, too.

      Susan



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    • David S. Bratman
      ... Yes, but it said the margin of society, not the margin of the academy. And however much his fiction may have been looked down on, he wasn t marginalized
      Message 2 of 15 , Jul 16, 2003
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        At 02:47 PM 7/16/2003 , Susan wrote:
        >dbratman@... writes:
        >
        >> There's several factual errors in the writeup, of which "He died in a rest
        >> home" is a new one to me, though "As a scholar he lived at the margin of
        >> society," which makes him sound like a beggar on the streets, is the most
        >> baroque.
        >
        >Oh, I don't know. I think scholars are often considered marginal by the
        >mainstream -- and poor JRRT was somewhat marginalized in the academy for
        >writing fantasy, wouldn't he?

        Yes, but it said the margin of society, not the margin of the academy. And
        however much his fiction may have been looked down on, he wasn't
        marginalized as a scholar, but was one of the central figures in his field.
        (His work on Beowulf is the most important landmark in the study of the
        poem since its first publication in the 18th century - and was recognized
        as such from the start.) Maybe they meant the margins of prestigious or
        elite society, for scholars never had high social repute, or much money.


        >I imagine he might have fits at seeing himself depicted in an icon, whether
        >it looked like him or not. But I *really* liked the trees in the background,
        >and I think he'd have liked them, too.

        Sure, they're nice trees, and resemble the trees of some of his artwork.

        - David Bratman
      • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
        Oh excellent! Thanks ! I ve been getting Bridge Building s catalogs for years but this is an image I hadn t seen yet. Some of their images work for me and
        Message 3 of 15 , Jul 17, 2003
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          Oh excellent! Thanks ! I've been getting Bridge Building's catalogs for
          years but this is an image I hadn't seen yet. Some of their images work
          for me and some don't and that's just the way it is, isn't it?

          Lizzie Triano
          lizziewriter@...
          amor vincit omnia
        • Stolzi@aol.com
          In a message dated 7/17/2003 6:02:09 AM Central Daylight Time, ... I liked their Katherine Tekakwitha (I think that was theirs) but in general, we Orthodox
          Message 4 of 15 , Jul 17, 2003
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            In a message dated 7/17/2003 6:02:09 AM Central Daylight Time,
            lizziewriter@... writes:


            > Some of their images work
            > for me and some don't

            I liked their Katherine Tekakwitha (I think that was theirs) but in general,
            we Orthodox Christians don't care to see our icon tradition used in this way.

            I suggest that the attempt in the text to depict Tolkien as "marginalized"
            was part of their general leftish stance.

            Diamond Proudbrook


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          • Jay Hershberger
            ... general, ... way. ... marginalized ... JH: Interesting points. Perhaps there was no intent to denigrate or trivialize the Orthodox icon tradition,
            Message 5 of 15 , Jul 17, 2003
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              > I liked their Katherine Tekakwitha (I think that was theirs) but in
              general,
              > we Orthodox Christians don't care to see our icon tradition used in this
              way.

              > I suggest that the attempt in the text to depict Tolkien as
              "marginalized"
              > was part of their general leftish stance.

              > Diamond Proudbrook

              JH: Interesting points. Perhaps there was no intent to denigrate or
              trivialize the Orthodox icon tradition, though I can easily understand why
              you might find it troubling.

              I wonder if you might elaborate on the "leftish" comment above. I am
              curious...it did not strike me that way, but my reading may be deficient.

              BTW, allow me to introduce myself. I teach piano at Concordia College,
              Moorhead, MN, and I and my whole family are Tolkien- and Lewis-philes.

              Cheers,

              Jay Hershberger


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            • Stolzi@aol.com
              In a message dated 7/17/2003 11:19:40 AM Central Daylight Time, ... Well, they ve put out icons of Dorothy Day, ML King Jr, Gandhi (!) and Harvey Milk (!!)
              Message 6 of 15 , Jul 17, 2003
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                In a message dated 7/17/2003 11:19:40 AM Central Daylight Time,
                hershber@... writes:


                >
                > I wonder if you might elaborate on the "leftish" comment above. I am
                > curious...it did not strike me that way, but my reading may be deficient.

                Well, they've put out icons of Dorothy Day, ML King Jr, Gandhi (!) and Harvey
                Milk (!!)

                Diamond Proudbrook


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              • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
                Well, they ve put out icons of Dorothy Day, ML King Jr, Gandhi (!) and Harvey Milk (!!) Don t forget Stephen (is it?) Biko... They have a few very
                Message 7 of 15 , Jul 18, 2003
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                  Well, they've put out icons of Dorothy Day, ML King Jr, Gandhi (!) and
                  Harvey
                  Milk (!!) >>

                  Don't forget Stephen (is it?) Biko...

                  They have a few very progressive or imaginative ones.... sort of
                  fantasy-religion, or mystic, however you want to look at it (some of them
                  work for me)

                  They also have some lovely sort of Russian-looking ones. Quite a range.
                  But they are not cheap.


                  Lizzie Triano
                  lizziewriter@...
                  amor vincit omnia
                • Jay Hershberger
                  Well, they ve put out icons of Dorothy Day, ML King Jr, Gandhi (!) and Harvey Milk (!!) Diamond Proudbrook JH: I got it now! Thanks. :) Cheers, Jay
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jul 18, 2003
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                    Well, they've put out icons of Dorothy Day, ML King Jr, Gandhi (!) and
                    Harvey
                    Milk (!!)

                    Diamond Proudbrook

                    JH: I got it now! Thanks. :)

                    Cheers,

                    Jay Hershberger
                  • WendellWag@aol.com
                    The discussion of the icon images available made it sound like they were all from some particular political perspective. In fact, the people in the images are
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jul 18, 2003
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                      The discussion of the icon images available made it sound like they were all
                      from some particular political perspective. In fact, the people in the images
                      are all over the place. Some are clearly standard saints, but there's also
                      Einstein, John Donne, Bach, etc. It sounds more like they're saying, "Hey, if
                      you want to consider this person a saint, that's fine with us. Just so we
                      make some money on it."

                      Wendell Wagner


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                    • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
                      The discussion of the icon images available made it sound like they were all from some particular political perspective. In fact, the people in the images are
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jul 18, 2003
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                        The discussion of the icon images available made it sound like they were
                        all
                        from some particular political perspective. In fact, the people in the
                        images
                        are all over the place. Some are clearly standard saints, but there's also
                        Einstein, John Donne, Bach, etc. It sounds more like they're saying, "Hey,
                        if
                        you want to consider this person a saint, that's fine with us. Just so we
                        make some money on it." >>

                        Oh, Wendell!

                        How about three cheers for the so-called free market? I am sure that some
                        of you can overwhelm me with reasons that it is NOT a free market! Still,
                        I am glad for those "icons" which do appeal to me. There are so many
                        available everywhere which don't! So many "Christian" or "religious" or
                        "spiritual" bookstores give me the heebie-jeebies with their various
                        attitudes. Sometimes I don't agree with the subjects that Bridge Building
                        has chosen to "elevate".... so then I don't buy that icon. But for the
                        ones I do like, I am happy to have the opportunity to buy them. In fact, I
                        wish I could buy them more often. They can make handy post cards and
                        things to put on the refrigerator and tape onto one's writing journal as
                        interesting jumping-off points.

                        Is there one of Taliesin?

                        We decry the idiocy on TV and all around us. But it is all supported by
                        dollars spent. If people didn't buy garbage it wouldn't succeed. We do it
                        to ourselves. Bridge Building has some nice advent calendars. I prefer
                        theirs to the Teddy Bears and cartoon whatnots that I see at CVS.

                        Hey I better be careful or I'll turn into a crank myself....

                        Meanwhile maybe it's time to order more of my favorite cards.. if htey are
                        still available...

                        Although I was going to take a shopping spree at Victoria's Secret sales
                        pages....

                        Lizzie Triano
                        lizziewriter@...
                        amor vincit omnia
                      • WendellWag@aol.com
                        In a message dated 7/18/2003 6:57:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... I didn t say that it was terrible that what was going on there was a free market for who was
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jul 18, 2003
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                          In a message dated 7/18/2003 6:57:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                          lizziewriter@... writes:

                          > How about three cheers for the so-called free market?

                          I didn't say that it was terrible that what was going on there was a free
                          market for who was depicted as a icon. What I was saying was that it seemed
                          clear to me that it *was* a free market that was determining what people would be
                          pictured in their icons. The discussion that went on here made it sound like
                          they had chosen which people to use for the icons according to some political
                          principle. When I looked at the list of people that they were using, it
                          seemed clear to me that the people were rather varied in politics and religion and
                          the company was just saying, "Hey, anybody that you consider to be a saint is
                          O.K. with us."

                          I was not saying that it's good or bad to use political principles to
                          determine who should be depicted as an icon. I was not saying that it's good or bad
                          to use the free market to determine who should be depicted as an icon. That
                          sort of discussion isn't even particularly interesting to me, and it's exactly
                          the sort of endless debate that never persuades anybody.

                          Wendell Wagner


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