Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Barfield and Tolkien

Expand Messages
  • David Lenander
    Kevin wrote: Prof. Flieger hinges her entire discussion of Barfield s influence on Tolkien on a single reported conversation. For heaven s sake, just read
    Message 1 of 2 , Jul 12, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      Kevin wrote:
      "Prof. Flieger hinges her entire discussion of Barfield's influence on
      Tolkien on a single reported conversation."


      For heaven's sake, just read _Poetic Diction_ and then read Lewis &
      Tolkien's early work. You don't need to know that the men knew each other
      and were friends. The influence is clear.

      Likewise, Tolkien certainly knew Coleridge, but the influence from Barfield
      on his apprehension of Coleridge is similarly clear in "On Fairy Stories."

      It's like the silly quoting of Lewis (was it?) that nobody ever influenced
      Tolkien. Lewis himself probably influenced Tolkien more than anyone,
      perhaps in championing Barfield to him alone. When you look, it just isn't
      so that Tolkien was an island apart.

      I think the Anthroposophy is silly, or else I just never "got" it, either,
      but I think Barfield is brilliant and influenced JRRT and CSL more than
      anyone else, maybe except for Plato & Aristotle. In literary terms, the two
      influences that I've seen insufficiently discussed are Gower (on Lewis) and
      Haggard (on Tolkien) though there have been a number of articles on the
      latter in more recent years.


      -- David Lenander
      2095 Hamline Ave. Roseville, MN 55113
      d-lena@... 651-292-8887
      http://www.umn.edu/~d-lena/RIVENDELL.html
    • bowring
      ... David, I am not saying that there is no influence. I want a more careful examination of the nature and extent of the influence. Tolkien, Barfield,
      Message 2 of 2 , Jul 14, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        David Lenander wrote:
        >"Prof. Flieger hinges her entire discussion of Barfield's influence on
        >Tolkien on a single reported conversation."

        >For heaven's sake, just read _Poetic Diction_ and then read Lewis &
        >Tolkien's early work. You don't need to know that the men knew each other
        >and were friends. The influence is clear.
        >
        >Likewise, Tolkien certainly knew Coleridge, but the influence from Barfield
        >on his apprehension of Coleridge is similarly clear in "On Fairy Stories."

        David, I am not saying that there is no influence. I want a more careful
        examination of the nature and extent of the influence. Tolkien, Barfield,
        Lewis--and let's add in Charles Williams for good measure--are not simply
        three peas in a pod, whose ideas are interchangeable. As I said before, I am
        interested in where they all both converge and diverge.

        I would say the same thing for the influence of Coleridge: none of them, not
        even Barfield, simply takes over Coleridge; they modified whatever they found.
        I want to understand the nature of these modifications better than I do
        because important matters are at stake.

        I am taking a week or so to examine some of this more carefully. When I am
        done, I will try to condense what I think into something of manageable email
        length.

        Keep your sword at the ready!
        Kevin
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.