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Re: proto-fantasy--magic or not? Enright & Konigburg

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  • Pauline J. Alama
    Yes, David Lenander is right in saying Konigsburg s _Jennifer, Hecate, Macbeth, William McKinley, & Me_ is sort of on the borderline of the fantasy field. In a
    Message 1 of 3 , Jul 1, 2003
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      Yes, David Lenander is right in saying Konigsburg's _Jennifer,
      Hecate, Macbeth, William McKinley, & Me_ is sort of on the borderline
      of the fantasy field. In a way I blew the ending by saying that it
      isn't really fantasy, because Elizabeth, the narrator, believes
      Jennifer really is a witch for most of the story.

      _Tatsinda_ is told by the younger sister in the family in _And Then
      There Were Five_, but the story isn't spelled out in full except in
      the separately published version. I recently bought _Tatsinda_ for my
      7-year-old niece, and she was enchanted with it. I think a 10-year-
      old might feel patronized if offered it as a reading selection,
      however.

      Another suggestion for the 10-year-old: Rudyard Kipling's _Jungle
      Book_ (not at all to be confused with the Disney version!).

      Pauline J. Alama

      --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, David Lenander <d-lena@u...> wrote:
      > Actually, Pauline, I'm almost sure there was another fantasy by
      Enright, related
      > to the Tatsinda book. Which is not really a picture book, if I
      remember
      > rightly, though it is liberally illustrated and not very long. But
      I think it
      > had a lot more text than picture books normally do, and it's 80
      pages long.
      > Maybe I'm wrong about that, it's been many years (30+??) since I
      looked at it.
      > But I think there was another book, related to _Tatsinda, called
      _Zeee_, which
      > is only 46 pp., according to a library record. Also, do you recall
      that
      > "Tatsinda" is a story told by one of the children in the
      _Saturdays_ series at
      > one point. There's also _The Hundred Dresses_, which is almost a
      fantasy, maybe
      > shades into the sort of book you're thinking of in talking about
      Konigsburg.
      > The title of that one is exactly as you've listed it, except you
      left out the
      > first name/word: _Jennifer, Hecate, Macbeth . . . ._ This is a
      wonderful book,
      > rather in the tradition of Eager's _Magic or Not_ books, and the E.
      Nesbit books
      > that inspired Eager (were they some of the Bastable books? _The
      Wouldbegoods_
      > perhaps?) Similar to Konigsburg's book is _The Egypt Game_ by
      Zilpha Keatly
      > Snyder, who of course has written a lot of books in this peculiar
      > sub-genre--_The Witches of Worm_ is another. She's also written
      fantasies like
      > _Black & Blue Magic_, and science fantasy like the Green Sky
      Trilogy, _Below the
      > Root_ and sequels, or the excellent _Eyes in the Fishbowl_. I'm
      having trouble
      > remembering details of some of Konigsburg's other books, I think
      she may have
      > written some actuial fantasy or SF, maybe _George (not george)_ or
      whatever that
      > one was. Maybe just a "psychological" exploration of split or
      multiple
      > personality. A lot of these sorts of books are psychological books
      in which the
      > :"reality" of the fantasy is partly dependant on the observer or
      the narrator
      > or.... Janet Taylor Lisle has done several books on this order,
      perhaps best
      > known is _Afternoon of the Elves_, or consider Phillippa Pearce's
      _A Dog So
      > Small_, or even some of William Mayne's books, or at least aspects
      of Garner's
      > books, even _The Owl Service_, though I won't deny out and out
      fantasy content
      > there. Or the semi-classic _Secret Garden_ by Frances H. Burnett.
      >
      > Both Enright and Konigsburg get a lot of readers because they
      received the
      > Newbery Medal, Enright for _Thimble Summer_, and ELK for _From the
      Mixed-up
      > Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler_ (I might have that name a
      little confused).
      > Many teachers in grade school recommend or require that children
      read from the
      > list of winners. Also, paperback publishers keep most of these in
      print and
      > promote the Newbery. I suppose Enright is much less read than
      Konigsburg today,
      > but _Thimble Summer_ is pretty short, so it probably gets readers
      for that
      > reason alone. Though I don't recall it as one of Enright's better
      books.
      >
      > Another writer I always pair with Enright is Eleanor Estes, who is
      best
      > remembered for the Moffat family books, (_Rufus M_ and others),
      received the
      > Newbery for _Ginger Pye_, and also wrote an outstanding fantasy
      that might be
      > good for 10-year olds: _The Witch Family_, which is interesting as
      an early
      > example of metafiction for children, as well as being a fun story
      about a witch
      > family, particulary the grumpy, would-be evil matriarch.
      >
      > >
      > > Message: 2
      > > Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:02:40 -0000
      > > From: "Pauline J. Alama" <PJAlama@e...>
      > > Subject: Re: fantasy for 10 year old?
      > >
      > > I do believe this is the first time I've heard from someone
      besides
      > > myself who's read Elizabeth Enright! Enright also wrote one
      fantasy,
      > > Tatsinda, but it's for younger kids than 10 -- a picture book.
      > >
      > > This puts me in mind of another author who didn't write fantasy
      but
      > > might be of interest. E.L. Konigsberg's book about a girl whose
      > > school friend scams her into thinking she can teach her witchcraft
      > > was wickedly funny. The title was something like "Hecate, Macbeth,
      > > William McKinley, and Me, Elizabeth." I may have forgotten some of
      > > the names in the title.
      > >
      > > Pauline J. Alama
      > >
      >
      > mythsoc@yahoogroups.com wrote:
      >
      > >
      > > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
      > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
      ------
      > >
      > > There are 2 messages in this issue.
      > >
      > > Topics in this digest:
      > >
      > > 1. Re: fantasy for 10 year old?
      > > From: "Pauline J. Alama" <PJAlama@e...>
      > > 2. Re: fantasy for 10 year old?
      > > From: "Pauline J. Alama" <PJAlama@e...>
      > >
      > >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      __
      > >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      __
      > >
      > > Message: 1
      > > Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:56:30 -0000
      > > From: "Pauline J. Alama" <PJAlama@e...>
      > > Subject: Re: fantasy for 10 year old?
      > >
      > > Let me enthusiastically back up the recommendation of Lloyd
      > > Alexander's Prydain Chronicles for a 10-year-old who likes
      fantasy. I
      > > first read them when I was not-quite-10, and I became instantly
      > > obsessed with them, and hooked on fantasy. They're a sort of
      coming-
      > > of-age story for a naive young man in search of his identity, with
      > > lots of varied characters, strange adventures, painful lessons to
      be
      > > learned, and of course, a grand struggle against the forces of
      evil.
      > > And beautiful language, which made a great impression on me at the
      > > time, and which I still appreciate. Start with The Book of Three.
      > >
      > > Alexander has written lots of other stuff, so there's more to
      explore
      > > if the 10-year-old takes to Prydain. He's also wonderful for
      > > answering fans' letters graciously.
      > >
      > > Pauline J. Alama
      > >
      > > --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth Apgar Triano"
      > > <lizziewriter@e...> wrote:
      > > > He's obviously reading well above grade level, but he is still
      only
      > > ten
      > > > years old. Any suggestions? >>
      > > >
      > > > Lloyd Alexander's Taran books. Susan Cooper's The Dark is
      Rising
      > > books.
      > > > Richard Adam's _Watership Down_. William Horwood's (sp) Duncton
      > > Wood
      > > > books. For scifi almost anything by Andre Norton (_Moon of
      Three
      > > Rings_
      > > > and _The Zero Stone_ (not sure about the The) are nice places to
      > > start.)
      > > >
      > > > I have seen other titles by Lloyd Alexander but am not familiar
      > > with them.
      > > >
      > > > If he is already reading LOTR he might like to read some of the
      > > related
      > > > nonfiction (biographies, etc.) and then pick some titles from
      the
      > > > narrative.
      > > >
      > > > Many libraries have reading lists also.
      > > >
      > > > Lizzie Triano
      > > > lizziewriter@e...
      > > > amor vincit omnia
      > >
      > >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      __
      > >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      __
      > >
      > > Message: 2
      > > Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:02:40 -0000
      > > From: "Pauline J. Alama" <PJAlama@e...>
      > > Subject: Re: fantasy for 10 year old?
      > >
      > > I do believe this is the first time I've heard from someone
      besides
      > > myself who's read Elizabeth Enright! Enright also wrote one
      fantasy,
      > > Tatsinda, but it's for younger kids than 10 -- a picture book.
      > >
      > > This puts me in mind of another author who didn't write fantasy
      but
      > > might be of interest. E.L. Konigsberg's book about a girl whose
      > > school friend scams her into thinking she can teach her witchcraft
      > > was wickedly funny. The title was something like "Hecate, Macbeth,
      > > William McKinley, and Me, Elizabeth." I may have forgotten some of
      > > the names in the title.
      > >
      > > Pauline J. Alama
      > >
      > > --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "dianejoy@e..." <dianejoy@e...>
      wrote:
      > > > Madeline L'Engle and Lloyd Alexander come to mind. And he's at
      the
      > > perfect
      > > > age to read *The Saturdays* and *The Four Story Mistake* by
      > > Elizabeth
      > > > Enright. They're mainstream, but awfully good, and funny. I
      > > enjoyed them
      > > > very much as a child. ---djb
      > > >
      > > > Original Message:
      > > > -----------------
      > > > From: jbigelow@p...
      > > > Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 19:20:15 GMT
      > > > To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Subject: [mythsoc] fantasy for 10 year old?
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Friends,
      > > >
      > > > A coworker of mine is looking for fantasy for her ten-year-old
      > > son. He's
      > > > already read LOTR *3* times, as well as Narnia and some of the
      > > Redwall
      > > > books. He's a little daunted by the size of the individual
      Harry
      > > Potter
      > > > books. I thought he might like Crown Duel/Court Duel, or some of
      > > Diana
      > > > Wynne Jones or Tamora Pierce's The Circle Opens.
      > > >
      > > > He's obviously reading well above grade level, but he is still
      only
      > > ten
      > > > years old. Any suggestions?
      > > >
      > > > Jane
      > > >
      > > > ---------------------------------------------
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      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
      > > >
      > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
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      > --
      >
      > David Lenander, Library Manager I
      >
      > University of Minnesota Bio-Medical Library Access Services
      >
      > Diehl Hall / 505 Essex SE, / Mpls., MN 55455
      >
      > Phone: work: (612)626-3375 fax: (612)626-2454 home: (651)292-8887
      >
      > e-mail: d-lena@u... web-page: http://umn.edu/~d-
      lena/OnceUponATime.html
    • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
      Another suggestion for the 10-year-old: Rudyard Kipling s _Jungle Book_ (not at all to be confused with the Disney version!). ... All of them, yes! Down to
      Message 2 of 3 , Jul 1, 2003
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        Another suggestion for the 10-year-old: Rudyard Kipling's _Jungle
        Book_ (not at all to be confused with the Disney version!).
        >>

        All of them, yes! Down to "In the Rukh" which I only found in recent
        years. I so loved those books, with their verses between, for many years
        and still do.

        Trying them on my 7-yo though is no good yet. I can read him HP or other
        modern things, but Kipling's language is too much. My own fault, for not
        bringing him up on more Milne and Potter....

        Lizzie Triano
        lizziewriter@...
        amor vincit omnia
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