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Re: [mythsoc] Digest Number 1295

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  • Steve Schaper
    ... Well, FWIW, and take into consideration as you read this, I have an M.Div. from a Bible-believing Presbyterian demination s seminary. And, I find it not
    Message 1 of 3 , Jun 30, 2003
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      > Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 03:02:06 -0000
      > From: "The Yeti !" <jadeyeti@...>
      > Subject: The Wicca, Man

      >
      > Television, the Internet, environmentalism and even feminism have
      > all played a role in the resurgence, they say.
      >
      > Soaring Pagan numbers have churches worrying and calling for
      > stricter controls on cult TV programs and films that celebrate
      > sorcery like "Harry Potter," "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Sabrina
      > the Teenage Witch."

      Well, FWIW, and take into consideration as you read this, I have an
      M.Div. from a Bible-believing Presbyterian demination's seminary. And, I
      find it not credible to blame the wonderful Harry Potter books for this.
      Or Sabrina. There is a little 'wiccan-like' material in Buffy.

      But I think that the main factors lie elsewhere (by a huge margin). I
      would say that people tend to need meaning, and the past 100 years in
      academia has -tended- towards a message that there is no real meaning,
      and has also tended to be very hostile towards traditional Christianity.
      This has (again, tended) to produce graduates who reject Christianity
      without thinking about it, and yet looking for meaning. As I think CSL
      put it 'paganism was the greatest thing, until Christianity came along,
      everything else has been lesser' Words to that effect, I don't remember
      the exact quote.

      Of the few Wiccans I've met, some want power over other people - but
      that is condemned by nearly all religions as evil, from various native
      American religions to the prophets of ancient Israel. Others, though,
      seek truth, goodness and beauty. I think they are looking for it in the
      wrong places, and that they are doing something quite dangerous to their
      well-beings, but I sympathise with their search and desires, and
      frequently with their aesthetics. They do often have very strange
      misunderstandings about what Christianity is. I was talking to one pagan
      a number of years ago, who believed that "St. Patrick and his army
      killed all the Celts." Though of course, my fellow evangelicals usually
      have some very strange misunderstandings about wicca, too.

      I don't think that the British Evangelical Alliance is approaching the
      situation in a helpful manner, even though England is technically
      officially a Christian (Anglican) country.


      This is probably amazingly off-topic. . . And I might be repeating
      myself. I don't remember . . . :-(

      > Message: 8
      > Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:31:36 -0400
      > From: "dianejoy@..." <dianejoy@...>
      > Subject: Re: language what? .... and world building
      >
      >
      >
      > Original Message:
      > -----------------
      > From: Elizabeth Apgar Triano lizziewriter@...
      > Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 22:36:57 -0400
      > To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [mythsoc] language what? .... and world building
      >

      > Meanwhile, maybe this is the place to ask, rather than the gaming lists...
      > does anyone know of software that can help with this? Like help draw maps

      I prefer to draw maps by hand, using CJRTs style.

      >

      > Message: 11
      > Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:08:33 EDT
      > From: alexeik@...
      > Subject: Re: Re: language what? ....
      >
      >
      > In a message dated 6/30/3 1:43:32 AM, Diamond Proudbrook wrote:
      >
      > <<Risking Wendell's wrath, I will comment that one of our main writers
      > (CSLewis) seemed to find the need to use a foreign word to convey a concept
      > important
      > to him - I refer of course to Sehnsucht.
      > >>

      But the concept can be understood in English, you just have to use
      several words, as you might have to for IIRC, heimatgeful (sp!?)


      > Message: 16
      > Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:38:42 -0400
      > From: Kevin Bowring <bowring@...>
      > Subject: Re: My two bits on HPV
      >
      > You're right of course. (An embarassing slip up that I'll conveniently blame on
      > too little sleep over the last few days.) I would still tend to see Rowling
      > operating at the level of fancy--though I still hope for more.
      > Kevin

      I think you are "spot-on" Kevin. But I wonder if I detect a little more
      towards the end. Unfortunately, it has me guessing the end to the
      series. . .

      --
      Steve Schaper <sschaper@...>
    • SusanPal@aol.com
      In a message dated 6/30/2003 2:09:29 PM Pacific Standard Time, ... I like your analysis about the search for meaning; this seems very accurate, from what I ve
      Message 2 of 3 , Jun 30, 2003
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        In a message dated 6/30/2003 2:09:29 PM Pacific Standard Time,
        sschaper@... writes:

        > They do often have very strange
        > misunderstandings about what Christianity is. I was talking to one pagan
        > a number of years ago, who believed that "St. Patrick and his army
        > killed all the Celts." Though of course, my fellow evangelicals usually
        > have some very strange misunderstandings about wicca, too.
        >

        I like your analysis about the search for meaning; this seems very accurate,
        from what I've seen. But the Wiccans I know best (both very bright people,
        and academics) were both raised Christian, so they're not at all unfamiliar with
        Christianity. They've turned away from Christianity because, in their
        perception, Christianity doesn't practice what it preaches: because it does abuse
        power, and isn't loving, and does judge people and condemn them rather than
        leaving it to God to do so.

        Of course, this isn't true of all Christianity! But it's not an entirely
        inaccurate assessment, either. Whatever qualms you may have about Wicca, it's
        not responsible for the Inquisition, the Crusades, the recent scandals in the
        Catholic Church, or any of the other sins that people hostile to Christianity
        hold to its account. As a Christian myself, I constantly try to remind such
        people that churches are always flawed, because they're human institutions, but
        that any one-sided view of the matter leaves out half the picture. Even during
        the worst Christian excesses, there have been other Christians doing good,
        being loving, performing acts of mercy, etc. (And while the Christians I know
        tend to be painfully aware of the shameful aspects of their own history, many
        of the non-Christians I know have very little knowledge of the good done by
        churches.)

        Ultimately, though, my friends seem less convinced by historical arguments
        and more convinced by the fact that I'm not like the Christians who've rejected
        and condemned them. "Gee, since you're Christian, maybe that means that not
        all Christians are Bible thumpers obsessed with sending other people to hell!"
        So ultimately, the best way to educate people about our faith is to try to
        walk the walk.

        Which, of course, isn't easy.

        And I've said parts of this here before, I think, for which I apologize!

        Susan


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      • jamcconney@aol.com
        In a message dated 6/30/2003 4:09:05 PM Central Daylight Time, ... As a fellow holder of an M.Div. I think you are right on! There is a great hunger for
        Message 3 of 3 , Jun 30, 2003
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          In a message dated 6/30/2003 4:09:05 PM Central Daylight Time,
          sschaper@... writes:

          > But I think that the main factors lie elsewhere (by a huge margin). I
          > would say that people tend to need meaning, and the past 100 years in
          > academia has -tended- towards a message that there is no real meaning,
          > and has also tended to be very hostile towards traditional Christianity.
          >

          As a fellow holder of an M.Div. I think you are right on! There is a great
          hunger for meaning, but often the only image of Christianity that seeps into
          present-day culture is that carried by the loudest voices, and is generally one
          of narrowness, harshness and judgmentalism.

          Nor is this perception entirely mistaken. Though we tend to equate such
          attitudes with the "Bible-thumping" churches, they exist to some degree in almost
          all denominations. I know of more than one seeker who has turned to Wicca,
          native spirituality, etc. because of his or her experience in a Christian church.
          I hope saying this does not offend our many good Christians on this list--I
          think, rather, that it should sadden us all.

          Anne


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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