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Re: [mythsoc] OT: Meritocracy (was Re: We're not all wild about Harry (or, of...

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  • David S. Bratman
    ... There s nothing in questioning the basis of meritocracy ratings that implies that one doesn t believe in excellence. Carl s definition of the basis of
    Message 1 of 6 , May 18, 2003
      At 06:55 AM 5/18/2003 , Stolzi wrote:
      >In a message dated 5/17/2003 6:18:14 PM Central Daylight Time,
      >nodens@... writes:
      >>
      >> But Carl, this sounds like a ringing endorsement of Peter Jackson's films
      >> at best, or a justification for the Fox Channel at worst.
      >
      >We wouldn't even exist as a Literary Society, let alone give awards every
      >year, if we didn't have a collective belief in SOME form of excellence. Or?

      There's nothing in questioning the basis of meritocracy ratings that
      implies that one doesn't believe in excellence. Carl's definition of the
      basis of meritocracy was success in the marketplace. Doug pointed out the
      deficiencies of that definition as a way of establishing a meritocracy of
      literary quality. (It's also hardly the basis of meritocracy in the realm
      where that term is most often used, the ranking of students, who are
      usually judged by grades and test scores, often by parentage or athletic
      ability, and sometimes even by the amount of money their parents have, but
      rarely by their own market saleability.)

      Anyway, the point of the argument I alluded to is to bring definitions of
      meritocracy out into the open and to point out their deficiencies in
      measuring merit by other standards, NOT to claim that there is no such
      thing as merit.

      - David Bratman
    • jamcconney@aol.com
      In a message dated 5/18/2003 8:55:36 AM Central Daylight Time, Stolzi@aol.com ... Not nearly as bad, however, as the Dufflepuds in _Voyage of the Dawn Treader_
      Message 2 of 6 , May 18, 2003
        In a message dated 5/18/2003 8:55:36 AM Central Daylight Time, Stolzi@...
        writes:

        > If I were a Marxist critic, I'd zero in on the way they are described as
        > being happy with their treatment.
        >

        Not nearly as bad, however, as the Dufflepuds in _Voyage of the Dawn Treader_
        who are presented as being UNhappy with their treatment.

        I've always been pretty unhappy with Lewis about the Dufflepuds anyway. Their
        one-leggedness is not only said to be a punishment but also a cause for great
        mirth among the 'normal' characters.

        Anne


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ernest S. Tomlinson
        ... ...One wants to distinguish between the conservatism of Burke, or even the conservatism of Barry Goldwater, and the conservatism of your average
        Message 3 of 6 , May 19, 2003
          On Sun, 18 May 2003 09:55:08 EDT, Stolzi@... said:

          > I'm not sure we haven't talked quite enough about "neoconservative" (a
          > big bugaboo word these days)...

          ...One wants to distinguish between the conservatism of Burke, or even
          the conservatism of Barry Goldwater, and the conservatism of your average
          Pentecostalist attorney general.

          Ernest.
          --
          Ernest S. Tomlinson / thiophene@...
          "_Attack of the Clones_ was the most scandalous cinematic waste I have
          ever seen, and remember, I've seen _The Phantom Menace_." (Ernest
          Tomlinson, shamelessly stealing from Roger Ebert's review of another
          movie)
        • Ernest S. Tomlinson
          ... But then, that Society would be pallid indeed if we all agreed on the measure of excellence. Adopt merely numerical measures, as seems to be the fashion
          Message 4 of 6 , May 20, 2003
            On Sun, 18 May 2003 09:55:07 EDT, Stolzi@... said:
            > In a message dated 5/17/2003 6:18:14 PM Central Daylight Time,
            > nodens@... writes:
            >
            >
            > >
            > > But Carl, this sounds like a ringing endorsement of Peter Jackson's films
            > > at
            > > best, or a justification for the Fox Channel at worst.
            >
            > We wouldn't even exist as a Literary Society, let alone give awards every
            > year, if we didn't have a collective belief in SOME form of excellence.

            But then, that Society would be pallid indeed if we all agreed on the
            measure of excellence. Adopt merely numerical measures, as seems to be
            the fashion these days, and J. K. Rowling is the greatest writer who ever
            lived and "General Hospital" the best TV show in the history of the boob
            tube.

            Ernest.
            --
            Ernest S. Tomlinson / thiophene@...
            "_Attack of the Clones_ was the most scandalous cinematic waste I have
            ever seen, and remember, I've seen _The Phantom Menace_." (Ernest
            Tomlinson, shamelessly stealing from Roger Ebert's review of another
            movie)
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