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Re: [mythsoc] Re: Seattle stinks

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  • Jane Bigelow
    ... Sounds like the Big Dig in Boston - how long has =that= been going on? But I m afraid we re straying offtopic, unless one could consider these as
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 1, 2003
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      > This boondoggle going to cost billions, disrupt downtown
      > traffic for years,

      Sounds like the "Big Dig" in Boston - how long has =that= been going on?

      But I'm afraid we're straying offtopic, unless one could consider these as
      boondoggles of, ahem, MYTHIC proportions :)

      Diamond Proudbrook

      Ernest and Mary,

      Well, we could try to imagine Tolkien's reaction to these boondoggles.
      Would the fact that in San Francisco and Seattle people are actually
      removing superhighways please him? Or would he be too disgusted by the
      whole nonsense to care? I don't know whether Tolkien ever expressed his
      opinion of superhighways or not, but I'll bet he didn't care for them, and
      I'll also bet that someone on this list knows whether or not he ever
      commented in writing on the topic.

      Jane
    • Yvan <tinidril@yahoo.com>
      ... Portland?... have affordable housing?? hahahahaha... only if you also have Seattle-level income to pay for it! But we *do* have excellent public
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 1, 2003
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        Ernest wrote:
        > I should have moved to Portland, which has
        > its numerous flaws too, but at least has
        > affordable housing and a highway network
        > consisting of more than Interstate 5 and
        > the (soon to be demolished to make way for
        > million-dollar waterfront condos) Alaskan
        > Way Viaduct.

        Portland?... have affordable housing?? hahahahaha... only if you also
        have Seattle-level income to pay for it!

        But we *do* have excellent public transportation... Which you need
        because the streets are really overburdened, narrow, old, etc... at
        least near the center of town.... and pretty good libraries. Central
        library has the most wonderful collection of old books! One summer I
        followed a mythopoeic trail of authors (before I knew
        what "mythopoeic" was) through those old tomes which included George
        McDonald and Charles Williams and a bunch of others I don't recall
        now.

        God bless! Tinidril
        http://www.xanga.com/tinidril
      • David S Bratman
        ... Of course Tolkien had comments on this subject. For instance, in Letter 181, comparing England to the pre-Scouring Shire: I would not say that we had to
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 2, 2003
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          At 03:46 PM 3/1/2003 -0700, Jane wrote:

          >Well, we could try to imagine Tolkien's reaction to these boondoggles.
          >Would the fact that in San Francisco and Seattle people are actually
          >removing superhighways please him? Or would he be too disgusted by the
          >whole nonsense to care? I don't know whether Tolkien ever expressed his
          >opinion of superhighways or not, but I'll bet he didn't care for them, and
          >I'll also bet that someone on this list knows whether or not he ever
          >commented in writing on the topic.

          Of course Tolkien had comments on this subject. For instance, in Letter
          181, comparing England to the pre-Scouring Shire:

          "I would not say that we had to suffer the malice of Sharkey and his
          Ruffians here. Though the spirit of Isengard, if not of Mordor, is of
          course always cropping up. The present design of destroying Oxford in
          order to accommodate motor-cars is a case."

          The "present design" to which he was referring to was a plan to run a new
          highway through the beautiful Christ Church meadows south of central
          Oxford. Tolkien was totally opposed; so were a lot of other people; and it
          was never built. But it's worth noting that the only alternative presented
          at the time was the status quo: constantly clogged traffic jams in central
          Oxford itself. Only a few years earlier he complained in Letter 135 that
          he had decided to move:

          "This charming house has become uninhabitable -- unsleepable-in,
          unworkable-in, rocked, racked with noise, and drenched with fumes. Such is
          modern life. Mordor in our midst."

          And that was the result of traffic going past his front door that the
          meadows highway would have relieved. Ironic, isn't it? When I first
          visited Oxford some 25 years ago the traffic situation was pretty much
          unchanged from when Tolkien wrote in the '50s, and still very bad. Since
          then it's improved somewhat, due to planning more intelligent than the
          meadows highway design.

          I don't recall anything about Tolkien cheering when various ugly modern
          constructions were torn down, but not much of that was yet being done in
          his day. He certainly had a lot of complaints about new construction going
          up, though. Somewhere in Carpenter's biography is a reference to Tolkien
          moaning "There goes the last of England's arable" whenever he saw new
          buildings replacing a field. He owned a car during the 1930s, but after
          World War II decided not to do so again, largely out of principle. (Though
          he was perfectly willing to ride in other people's cars.)

          - David Bratman
        • Ernest Tomlinson
          ... From: To: Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 9:39 PM Subject: [mythsoc] Seattle stinks ... Well, the few people
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 2, 2003
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            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <tinidril@...>
            To: <mythsoc@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 9:39 PM
            Subject: [mythsoc] Seattle stinks


            > Ernest wrote:
            > > I should have moved to Portland, which has
            > > its numerous flaws too, but at least has
            > > affordable housing and a highway network
            > > consisting of more than Interstate 5 and
            > > the (soon to be demolished to make way for
            > > million-dollar waterfront condos) Alaskan
            > > Way Viaduct.
            >
            > Portland?... have affordable housing?? hahahahaha... only if you also
            > have Seattle-level income to pay for it!

            Well, the few people I know in Portland pay considerably less for housing
            than I and most people I know here...although it's debatable whether, say,
            the Sellwood neighborhood is really Portland. I think that it's probably
            easier to get away with living some distance from the Portland city center
            because there are more options for getting into town than (the Seattle
            equivalent of) slogging your way down crowded I-5 or even more crowded
            I-405. I drive to work at 5:30 to 6:30 in the morning, depending, and
            already by the time the southbound commute from Snohomish County down I-5 is
            stop-and-go. By 7 am it's a parking lot.

            The biggest downside to Portland at least at the moment is that it's still
            got the highest unemployment in the country, or near to it. But Seattle
            isn't much better.

            Ernest.
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