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Sayers (3)

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  • jchristopher@tarleton.edu
    Perhaps, since I started writing about Sayers yesterday, I should note that Jill Paton Walsh and Dorothy L. Sayers second Lord Peter mystery, _A Presumption
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 25, 2003
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      Perhaps, since I started writing about Sayers yesterday, I should note that
      Jill Paton Walsh and Dorothy L. Sayers' second Lord Peter mystery, _A
      Presumption of Death_ has been out in Britain since last November and will
      be published in America next month (March).

      --Joe
    • Stolzi@aol.com
      In a message dated 2/25/2003 10:00:20 AM Central Standard Time, ... How MUCH Sayers is there in that, Joe? I thought she d left behind drafts for only one
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 25, 2003
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        In a message dated 2/25/2003 10:00:20 AM Central Standard Time,
        jchristopher@... writes:


        > Jill Paton Walsh and Dorothy L. Sayers' second Lord Peter mystery, _A
        > Presumption of Death_ has

        How MUCH Sayers is there in that, Joe? I thought she'd left behind drafts
        for only one novel (THRONES, DOMINATIONS)

        The listing at amazon.co.uk appears to indicate that the characters are
        Sayers' only contribution, though I may be wrong.

        Diamond Proudbrook



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • David S. Bratman
        The US Amazon listing clarifies this, at least for me. The new book uses Sayers s authentic background information about what happened to her principal
        Message 3 of 11 , Feb 25, 2003
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          The US Amazon listing clarifies this, at least for me. The new book uses
          Sayers's authentic background information about what happened to her principal
          characters afterwards, up to the early part of WW2. This is contained in "The
          Wimsey Papers", a series of articles Sayers wrote for a magazine (they've never
          been reprinted), giving her thoughts on the world situation etc in the form of
          letters, diaries etc written by her characters.

          But the plot, or at least its details, are entirely original to Walsh. Even if
          the novel includes the texts of "The Wimsey Papers," it's grotesquely
          misleading to credit Sayers as co-author of the book. (This time she's the
          second author and Walsh is the first.)

          On the subject of posthumous collaborations, there's an article in Slate a few
          days back, "Dead Man Writing: How to keep writing your late father's books," by
          Chris Suellentrop. Suellentrop uses the premise mostly as an excuse to bash
          Jeff Shaara's "Gods and Generals" but he also includes some amazingly
          inaccurate information about J.R.R. and Christopher Tolkien.

          So if you click on "Read Messages" at the bottom of the article, you will find
          links to a few reader posts correcting this, the most lengthy and exhaustive
          (exhausting?) of these attributed to a poster called Kalimac. I wonder who
          that might be, hm?

          - David Bratman



          At 09:13 AM 2/25/2003 , Stolzi wrote:
          >jchristopher@... writes:
          >
          >> Jill Paton Walsh and Dorothy L. Sayers' second Lord Peter mystery, _A
          >> Presumption of Death_ has
          >
          >How MUCH Sayers is there in that, Joe? I thought she'd left behind drafts
          >for only one novel (THRONES, DOMINATIONS)
          >
          >The listing at amazon.co.uk appears to indicate that the characters are
          >Sayers' only contribution, though I may be wrong.
        • David S. Bratman
          Forgot the direct link: http://slate.msn.com/id/2078980/ ... books, by ... - David Bratman
          Message 4 of 11 , Feb 25, 2003
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            Forgot the direct link: http://slate.msn.com/id/2078980/

            At 09:58 AM 2/25/2003 , I wrote:
            >On the subject of posthumous collaborations, there's an article in Slate a few
            >days back, "Dead Man Writing: How to keep writing your late father's
            books," by
            >Chris Suellentrop. Suellentrop uses the premise mostly as an excuse to bash
            >Jeff Shaara's "Gods and Generals" but he also includes some amazingly
            >inaccurate information about J.R.R. and Christopher Tolkien.
            >
            >So if you click on "Read Messages" at the bottom of the article, you will find
            >links to a few reader posts correcting this, the most lengthy and exhaustive
            >(exhausting?) of these attributed to a poster called Kalimac. I wonder who
            >that might be, hm?

            - David Bratman
          • jamcconney@aol.com
            In a message dated 2/25/2003 11:14:39 AM Central Standard Time, ... And even that one left much to be desired. It seemed to me that a lot of chinks were being
            Message 5 of 11 , Feb 25, 2003
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              In a message dated 2/25/2003 11:14:39 AM Central Standard Time,
              Stolzi@... writes:

              > How MUCH Sayers is there in that, Joe? I thought she'd left behind drafts
              > for only one novel (THRONES, DOMINATIONS)
              >

              And even that one left much to be desired. It seemed to me that a lot of
              chinks were being filled in by someone not entirely in tune. Lord Peter would
              _never_ have said some of those things!

              Anne


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Berni Phillips
              From: ... drafts ... would ... My favorite was the line about someone meeting Lord Peter at the door in his pajamas. I kept expecting
              Message 6 of 11 , Feb 25, 2003
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                From: <jamcconney@...>
                > Stolzi@... writes:
                >
                > > How MUCH Sayers is there in that, Joe? I thought she'd left behind
                drafts
                > > for only one novel (THRONES, DOMINATIONS)
                >
                > And even that one left much to be desired. It seemed to me that a lot of
                > chinks were being filled in by someone not entirely in tune. Lord Peter
                would
                > _never_ have said some of those things!
                >
                > Anne

                My favorite was the line about someone meeting Lord Peter at the door in his
                pajamas. I kept expecting Groucho Marx to pop in saying, "How he got in
                Lord Peter's pajamas, I'll never know."

                Berni
              • Stolzi@aol.com
                In a message dated 2/25/2003 7:19:44 PM Central Standard Time, ... =My= favorite (quoting here from what I said in a past issue of BUTTERBUR S WOODSHED): As
                Message 7 of 11 , Feb 26, 2003
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                  In a message dated 2/25/2003 7:19:44 PM Central Standard Time,
                  bernip@... writes:


                  > My favorite was the line about someone meeting Lord Peter at the door in his
                  > pajamas. I kept expecting Groucho Marx to pop in saying, "How he got in
                  > Lord Peter's pajamas, I'll never know."

                  =My= favorite (quoting here from what I said in a past issue of BUTTERBUR'S
                  WOODSHED):

                  As usual, Lord Peter's love-making is allusive, and here (p. 274) he speaks
                  of welcoming a hero with trumpets. Bach trumpets, perhaps, Harriet inquires?

                  "Could you manage a natural trumpet?"
                  "Yes," she said, "I think I could."

                  As far as I recall, Harriet is not a small woman, and at this point,
                  elephants came most disastrously to mind.


                  Diamond Proudbrook



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Stolzi@aol.com
                  In a message dated 2/25/2003 7:19:44 PM Central Standard Time, ... Sort of like a treasured line from Stephan Grundy s RHINEGOLD. Towards the end, Gudrun
                  Message 8 of 11 , Feb 26, 2003
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                    In a message dated 2/25/2003 7:19:44 PM Central Standard Time,
                    bernip@... writes:


                    > My favorite was the line about someone meeting Lord Peter at the door in his
                    > pajamas. I kept expecting Groucho Marx to pop in saying, "How he got in
                    > Lord Peter's pajamas, I'll never know."

                    Sort of like a treasured line from Stephan Grundy's RHINEGOLD. Towards the
                    end, Gudrun marries the king of the Burgundians and bears him a child. The
                    people are expected to offer gifts, and Grundy informs us (quoting from
                    memory):

                    "The Burgundians filed up and laid their eggs beside her as she sat on the
                    wall."


                    Diamond Proudbrook



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • dianejoy@earthlink.net
                    ... From: David S. Bratman dbratman@stanford.edu Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:58:02 -0800 To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Sayers (3)
                    Message 9 of 11 , Feb 27, 2003
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                      Original Message:
                      -----------------
                      From: David S. Bratman dbratman@...
                      Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:58:02 -0800
                      To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Sayers (3)


                      << The US Amazon listing clarifies this, at least for me. The new book uses
                      Sayers's authentic background information about what happened to her
                      principal characters afterwards, up to the early part of WW2. >>

                      Intriguing, to be sure.

                      << This is contained in "The Wimsey Papers", a series of articles Sayers
                      wrote for a magazine (they've never been reprinted), giving her thoughts on
                      the world situation etc in the form of letters, diaries etc written by her
                      characters. >>

                      An interesting project for Mythopoeic Press, perhaps a reprinting?

                      << But the plot, or at least its details, are entirely original to Walsh.
                      Even if the novel includes the texts of "The Wimsey Papers," it's
                      grotesquely
                      misleading to credit Sayers as co-author of the book. (This time she's the
                      second author and Walsh is the first.)>>

                      What a rip off. Isn't Ms. Walsh confident enough in her own skills to let
                      go fo Sayers' name now?

                      << On the subject of posthumous collaborations, there's an article in Slate
                      a few days back, "Dead Man Writing: How to keep writing your late father's
                      books," by Chris Suellentrop. Suellentrop uses the premise mostly as an
                      excuse to bash Jeff Shaara's "Gods and Generals">>

                      Yes; a lot of people are bashing this; I'd like to read the book, and see
                      the film.

                      but he also includes some amazingly
                      inaccurate information about J.R.R. and Christopher Tolkien.

                      So if you click on "Read Messages" at the bottom of the article, you will
                      find links to a few reader posts correcting this, the most lengthy and
                      exhaustive(exhausting?) of these attributed to a poster called Kalimac. I
                      wonder who that might be, hm?

                      That would be you, perhaps?



                      At 09:13 AM 2/25/2003 , Stolzi wrote:
                      >jchristopher@... writes:
                      >
                      >> Jill Paton Walsh and Dorothy L. Sayers' second Lord Peter mystery, _A
                      >> Presumption of Death_ has
                      >
                      >How MUCH Sayers is there in that, Joe? I thought she'd left behind drafts
                      >for only one novel (THRONES, DOMINATIONS)
                      >
                      >The listing at amazon.co.uk appears to indicate that the characters are
                      >Sayers' only contribution, though I may be wrong.


                      The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org

                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



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                    • Margaret Dean
                      ... In fact, Jill Paton Walsh has been a mystery writer in her own right for some time, from what I understand. She was invited to complete THRONES,
                      Message 10 of 11 , Feb 27, 2003
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                        "dianejoy@..." wrote:
                        >
                        > Original Message:
                        > -----------------
                        > From: David S. Bratman dbratman@...

                        > << But the plot, or at least its details, are entirely original to
                        > Walsh. Even if the novel includes the texts of "The Wimsey Papers,"
                        > it's grotesquely misleading to credit Sayers as co-author of the book.
                        > (This time she's the second author and Walsh is the first.)>>
                        >
                        > What a rip off. Isn't Ms. Walsh confident enough in her own skills
                        > to let go fo Sayers' name now?

                        In fact, Jill Paton Walsh has been a mystery writer in her own
                        right for some time, from what I understand. She was invited to
                        complete THRONES, DOMINATIONS and did a lot of work and research
                        for that. (I personally thought she did a pretty good job, but
                        that opinion isn't necessarily relevant to the subject.)

                        THRONES turned out to be enough of a success that the publishers
                        decided they wanted more. Walsh was originally reluctant, but
                        when the publishers basically told her, "Either you do it or
                        we'll get someone else to," she decided that she was the lesser
                        of two evils.


                        --Margaret Dean
                        <margdean@...>
                      • David S. Bratman
                        ... We could discuss the morality of _that_ decision, that s for sure. - David Bratman
                        Message 11 of 11 , Feb 27, 2003
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                          At 08:31 AM 2/27/2003 , Margaret Dean wrote:

                          >THRONES turned out to be enough of a success that the publishers
                          >decided they wanted more. Walsh was originally reluctant, but
                          >when the publishers basically told her, "Either you do it or
                          >we'll get someone else to," she decided that she was the lesser
                          >of two evils.

                          We could discuss the morality of _that_ decision, that's for sure.

                          - David Bratman
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