Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [mythsoc] Jackson comments, again

Expand Messages
  • Ernest Tomlinson
    ... From: Joan Marie Verba To: Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 6:49 PM Subject: [mythsoc] Jackson comments,
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 4, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Joan Marie Verba" <verba001@...>
      To: <mythsoc@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 6:49 PM
      Subject: [mythsoc] Jackson comments, again


      > "David S. Bratman" wrote:
      > >
      > > Anybody who thinks I've been hard on Peter Jackson should read this:
      > >
      > >
      http://www.syracuse.com/news/poststandard/kirst/index.ssf?/base/news-0/10360
      > > 68903109090.xml
      >
      > Tried, but it seems that I have to subscribe to get it.

      I swear that when I tried this link earlier in the day, I reached the
      article, no problem. I suspect that decided that some profit could be had
      from a hot item. It's not cached in Google either, that I can tell.

      I was hoping to read the article again to refresh my memory, but I remember
      enough to make two comments. First, the professor is absolutely right when
      he says that the films aren't even all that good as films, never mind their
      fidelity to _The Lord of the Rings_. I have gotten tired of the standard,
      and unthinking, defence of Jackson's films that runs something like, "Well,
      of course he changed the story, but he _had_ to change the story for it to
      work as a movie, and you have to admit that it's great moviemaking."

      Second, I agree that Eowyn was weakened. Jackson and his collaborators may
      be surprised at this charge, because they obviously thought to build her
      character up into a rival against Arwen, but in enlarging her character they
      also dissipated her. She spends most of her scenes either gazing upon
      Aragorn in watery adoration or consumed with wordless and stoic despair over
      his apparent death.

      Ernest.
    • Croft, Janet B
      I had no problem reaching the article today, either. Good comments throughout. I had been wondering -- is it just my familiarity with the text that makes the
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        I had no problem reaching the article today, either. Good comments
        throughout. I had been wondering -- is it just my familiarity with the text
        that makes the moments quoted exactly from the book seem so much richer than
        their surroundings, because I get a frisson of recognition? Or are they
        really that much better? And yes, I think they are. Jackson's added
        dialogue is usually so banal.

        I found this comment intriguing: "In some respects [the films] seem to be
        intended to stand independent of the book, but in others they depend upon it
        for comprehension. One can't have it both ways." Of course, that does lead
        people to buy and read the books -- and then make comparisons, to the
        movies' disadvantage.

        "Sauron's eye over Bard-dur looks like an advertising sign" -- ROTFL!

        Janet

        Janet Brennan Croft
        jbcroft@... <mailto:jbcroft@...>
        http://libraries.ou.edu/ <http://libraries.ou.edu/>
        http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/C/Janet.B.Croft-1/
        <http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/C/Janet.B.Croft-1/>
        -----------------------------------------------------------------
        There are two kinds of people in this world: those who need closure


        > "David S. Bratman" wrote:
        > >
        > > Anybody who thinks I've been hard on Peter Jackson should read this:
        > >
        > >
        http://www.syracuse.com/news/poststandard/kirst/index.ssf?/base/news-0/10360
        <http://www.syracuse.com/news/poststandard/kirst/index.ssf?/base/news-0/1036
        0>
        > > 68903109090.xml
        >
        > Tried, but it seems that I have to subscribe to get it.


        The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
        <http://www.mythsoc.org>

        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
        <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • WendellWag@aol.com
        A perhaps trivial nitpick: In a message dated 2/4/2003 10:27:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... Wayne Hammond is a librarian, not a professor. Wendell Wagner
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          A perhaps trivial nitpick:

          In a message dated 2/4/2003 10:27:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
          thiophene@... writes:


          > First, the professor is absolutely right . . .

          Wayne Hammond is a librarian, not a professor.

          Wendell Wagner


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Croft, Janet B
          Hey now, he could be both! My title is assistant professor! Janet Janet Brennan Croft jbcroft@ou.edu http://libraries.ou.edu/
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            Hey now, he could be both! My title is assistant professor!

            Janet

            Janet Brennan Croft
            jbcroft@...
            http://libraries.ou.edu/ <http://libraries.ou.edu/>
            http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/C/Janet.B.Croft-1/
            <http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/C/Janet.B.Croft-1/>
            -----------------------------------------------------------------
            There are two kinds of people in this world: those who need closure

            -----Original Message-----
            From: WendellWag@... [mailto:WendellWag@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 9:33 AM
            To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Jackson comments, again


            A perhaps trivial nitpick:

            In a message dated 2/4/2003 10:27:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
            thiophene@... writes:


            > First, the professor is absolutely right . . .

            Wayne Hammond is a librarian, not a professor.

            Wendell Wagner


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

            ADVERTISEMENT



            <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=245327.2891370.4259126.1612068/D=egroupweb/S=17050202
            27:HM/A=1430287/R=2/id=noscript/*http://www.poetry.com/contest/contest.asp?S
            uite=A33405>

            <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=245327.2891370.4259126.1612068/D=egroupmai
            l/S=:HM/A=1430287/rand=719575242>

            The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
            <http://www.mythsoc.org>

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
            <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • WendellWag@aol.com
            In a message dated 2/5/2003 10:39:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, jbcroft@ou.edu ... Why don t we just ask him, since he belongs to this mailing list? Hey,
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              In a message dated 2/5/2003 10:39:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, jbcroft@...
              writes:


              > Hey now, he could be both! My title is assistant professor!
              >

              Why don't we just ask him, since he belongs to this mailing list? Hey,
              Wayne, are you a professor too?

              Wendell Wagner


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Wayne G. Hammond
              ... No, at Williams College only the chief College Librarian has faculty status. Which is not to say that we librarians don t teach. Wayne
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                Wendell asked:

                >Why don't we just ask him, since he belongs to this mailing list? Hey,
                >Wayne, are you a professor too?

                No, at Williams College only the chief College Librarian has faculty
                status. Which is not to say that we librarians don't teach.

                Wayne
              • Stolzi@aol.com
                In a message dated 2/4/2003 9:28:01 PM Central Standard Time, ... I reached it not by that link, which came up with a blank page, but by going to the link for
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  In a message dated 2/4/2003 9:28:01 PM Central Standard Time,
                  thiophene@... writes:


                  > I swear that when I tried this link earlier in the day, I reached the
                  > article, no problem.

                  I reached it not by that link, which came up with a blank page, but by going
                  to the link for the paper's "14-Day Archive" and scrolling down. I captured
                  the text and Listmistress Joan may tell me whether it is legit. to post it
                  here. (It's a Letter to the Editor, anyway, not an article; I would think it
                  remains Wayne's property and that he wouldn't mind, but I don't know)

                  Diamond Proudbrook


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Wayne G. Hammond
                  ... it ... I don t know either: some letters sent to newspapers become the property of the paper, but mine was a letter to a reporter in lieu of a telephone
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    >I reached it not by that link, which came up with a blank page, but by going
                    >to the link for the paper's "14-Day Archive" and scrolling down. I captured
                    >the text and Listmistress Joan may tell me whether it is legit. to post it
                    >here. (It's a Letter to the Editor, anyway, not an article; I would think
                    it
                    >remains Wayne's property and that he wouldn't mind, but I don't know)

                    I don't know either: some letters sent to newspapers become the property of
                    the paper, but mine was a letter to a reporter in lieu of a telephone
                    interview, not a proper letter to the editor; at the same time, it's an
                    article, but wasn't written as one (the reporter made it so, to my
                    surprise), and it has a copyright notice by the Post-Standard. In any case,
                    it's easy enough to read the piece on site, just go from the link at
                    http://www.syracuse.com/news/poststandard/kirst/index.ssf. No subscription
                    necessary. Just don't try to search for my name through the search box on
                    syracuse.com, for some reason it brings up only the related general article
                    about fans disagreeing about the films. The article in question disappeared
                    from the site for a few hours yesterday, apparently a system glitch, but
                    was restored early this morning.

                    Wayne
                  • Margaret Dean
                    ... *sigh* I would really like to read what Wayne had to say, but I can t get either link to provide a download of the page in anything like a reasonable
                    Message 9 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      "Wayne G. Hammond" wrote:
                      >
                      > >I reached it not by that link, which came up with a blank page, but by
                      > >going to the link for the paper's "14-Day Archive" and scrolling down.
                      > >I captured the text and Listmistress Joan may tell me whether it is
                      > >legit. to post it here. (It's a Letter to the Editor, anyway, not an
                      > >article; I would think it remains Wayne's property and that he wouldn't
                      > >mind, but I don't know)
                      >
                      > I don't know either: some letters sent to newspapers become the property
                      > of the paper, but mine was a letter to a reporter in lieu of a telephone
                      > interview, not a proper letter to the editor; at the same time, it's an
                      > article, but wasn't written as one (the reporter made it so, to my
                      > surprise), and it has a copyright notice by the Post-Standard. In any case,
                      > it's easy enough to read the piece on site, just go from the link at
                      > http://www.syracuse.com/news/poststandard/kirst/index.ssf. No subscription
                      > necessary. Just don't try to search for my name through the search box on
                      > syracuse.com, for some reason it brings up only the related general article
                      > about fans disagreeing about the films. The article in question disappeared
                      > from the site for a few hours yesterday, apparently a system glitch, but
                      > was restored early this morning.

                      *sigh* I would really like to read what Wayne had to say, but I
                      can't get either link to provide a download of the page in
                      anything like a reasonable amount of time. (Just as an
                      indication, I tried the longer version of the link earlier today,
                      and sat there with a book until my screen saver came on -- and I
                      have it on a ten-minute delay.) If some kind person has captured
                      it and could send me a copy by private email, that wouldn't
                      violate copyright, would it?


                      --Margaret Dean
                      <margdean@...>
                    • WendellWag@aol.com
                      A problem with the column from the Syracuse newspaper with Wayne s comments on the films just occurred to me: Where does this columnist Sean Kirst get off
                      Message 10 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        A problem with the column from the Syracuse newspaper with Wayne's comments
                        on the films just occurred to me: Where does this columnist Sean Kirst get
                        off with passing off what's actually a letter from Wayne as one of his
                        columns? Did this guy actually turn this in as his column for the week and
                        get paid for it? (Note that it's his picture by the column, not Wayne's.)
                        Wayne, if I were you, I would write this guy and demand he send you whatever
                        he got paid this week, since you wrote the column for him.

                        Wendell Wagner
                      • Wayne G. Hammond
                        ... When my comments were published in the Post-Standard newspaper, before they went on the web, they were only a sidebar to the main article New War of the
                        Message 11 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Wendell wrote:

                          >A problem with the column from the Syracuse newspaper with Wayne's comments
                          >on the films just occurred to me: Where does this columnist Sean Kirst get
                          >off with passing off what's actually a letter from Wayne as one of his
                          >columns? Did this guy actually turn this in as his column for the week and
                          >get paid for it? (Note that it's his picture by the column, not Wayne's.)
                          >Wayne, if I were you, I would write this guy and demand he send you whatever
                          >he got paid this week, since you wrote the column for him.

                          When my comments were published in the Post-Standard newspaper, before they
                          went on the web, they were only a sidebar to the main article "New 'War of
                          the Ring' Rages". So Kirst earned his paycheck for the latter. If he
                          hadn't, I certainly would have complained!

                          Wayne
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.