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Jackson comments, again

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  • Joan Marie Verba
    ... Tried, but it seems that I have to subscribe to get it. Joan ****************************************** Joan Marie Verba verba001@tc.umn.edu
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 4, 2003
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      "David S. Bratman" wrote:
      >
      > Anybody who thinks I've been hard on Peter Jackson should read this:
      >
      > http://www.syracuse.com/news/poststandard/kirst/index.ssf?/base/news-0/10360
      > 68903109090.xml

      Tried, but it seems that I have to subscribe to get it.

      Joan
      ******************************************
      Joan Marie Verba
      verba001@...
      http://www.sff.net/people/Joan.Marie.Verba
    • Ernest Tomlinson
      ... From: Joan Marie Verba To: Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 6:49 PM Subject: [mythsoc] Jackson comments,
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 4, 2003
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        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Joan Marie Verba" <verba001@...>
        To: <mythsoc@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 6:49 PM
        Subject: [mythsoc] Jackson comments, again


        > "David S. Bratman" wrote:
        > >
        > > Anybody who thinks I've been hard on Peter Jackson should read this:
        > >
        > >
        http://www.syracuse.com/news/poststandard/kirst/index.ssf?/base/news-0/10360
        > > 68903109090.xml
        >
        > Tried, but it seems that I have to subscribe to get it.

        I swear that when I tried this link earlier in the day, I reached the
        article, no problem. I suspect that decided that some profit could be had
        from a hot item. It's not cached in Google either, that I can tell.

        I was hoping to read the article again to refresh my memory, but I remember
        enough to make two comments. First, the professor is absolutely right when
        he says that the films aren't even all that good as films, never mind their
        fidelity to _The Lord of the Rings_. I have gotten tired of the standard,
        and unthinking, defence of Jackson's films that runs something like, "Well,
        of course he changed the story, but he _had_ to change the story for it to
        work as a movie, and you have to admit that it's great moviemaking."

        Second, I agree that Eowyn was weakened. Jackson and his collaborators may
        be surprised at this charge, because they obviously thought to build her
        character up into a rival against Arwen, but in enlarging her character they
        also dissipated her. She spends most of her scenes either gazing upon
        Aragorn in watery adoration or consumed with wordless and stoic despair over
        his apparent death.

        Ernest.
      • Croft, Janet B
        I had no problem reaching the article today, either. Good comments throughout. I had been wondering -- is it just my familiarity with the text that makes the
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
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          I had no problem reaching the article today, either. Good comments
          throughout. I had been wondering -- is it just my familiarity with the text
          that makes the moments quoted exactly from the book seem so much richer than
          their surroundings, because I get a frisson of recognition? Or are they
          really that much better? And yes, I think they are. Jackson's added
          dialogue is usually so banal.

          I found this comment intriguing: "In some respects [the films] seem to be
          intended to stand independent of the book, but in others they depend upon it
          for comprehension. One can't have it both ways." Of course, that does lead
          people to buy and read the books -- and then make comparisons, to the
          movies' disadvantage.

          "Sauron's eye over Bard-dur looks like an advertising sign" -- ROTFL!

          Janet

          Janet Brennan Croft
          jbcroft@... <mailto:jbcroft@...>
          http://libraries.ou.edu/ <http://libraries.ou.edu/>
          http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/C/Janet.B.Croft-1/
          <http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/C/Janet.B.Croft-1/>
          -----------------------------------------------------------------
          There are two kinds of people in this world: those who need closure


          > "David S. Bratman" wrote:
          > >
          > > Anybody who thinks I've been hard on Peter Jackson should read this:
          > >
          > >
          http://www.syracuse.com/news/poststandard/kirst/index.ssf?/base/news-0/10360
          <http://www.syracuse.com/news/poststandard/kirst/index.ssf?/base/news-0/1036
          0>
          > > 68903109090.xml
          >
          > Tried, but it seems that I have to subscribe to get it.


          The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
          <http://www.mythsoc.org>

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • WendellWag@aol.com
          A perhaps trivial nitpick: In a message dated 2/4/2003 10:27:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... Wayne Hammond is a librarian, not a professor. Wendell Wagner
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
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            A perhaps trivial nitpick:

            In a message dated 2/4/2003 10:27:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
            thiophene@... writes:


            > First, the professor is absolutely right . . .

            Wayne Hammond is a librarian, not a professor.

            Wendell Wagner


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Croft, Janet B
            Hey now, he could be both! My title is assistant professor! Janet Janet Brennan Croft jbcroft@ou.edu http://libraries.ou.edu/
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
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              Hey now, he could be both! My title is assistant professor!

              Janet

              Janet Brennan Croft
              jbcroft@...
              http://libraries.ou.edu/ <http://libraries.ou.edu/>
              http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/C/Janet.B.Croft-1/
              <http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/C/Janet.B.Croft-1/>
              -----------------------------------------------------------------
              There are two kinds of people in this world: those who need closure

              -----Original Message-----
              From: WendellWag@... [mailto:WendellWag@...]
              Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 9:33 AM
              To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Jackson comments, again


              A perhaps trivial nitpick:

              In a message dated 2/4/2003 10:27:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
              thiophene@... writes:


              > First, the professor is absolutely right . . .

              Wayne Hammond is a librarian, not a professor.

              Wendell Wagner


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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            • WendellWag@aol.com
              In a message dated 2/5/2003 10:39:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, jbcroft@ou.edu ... Why don t we just ask him, since he belongs to this mailing list? Hey,
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
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                In a message dated 2/5/2003 10:39:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, jbcroft@...
                writes:


                > Hey now, he could be both! My title is assistant professor!
                >

                Why don't we just ask him, since he belongs to this mailing list? Hey,
                Wayne, are you a professor too?

                Wendell Wagner


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Wayne G. Hammond
                ... No, at Williams College only the chief College Librarian has faculty status. Which is not to say that we librarians don t teach. Wayne
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
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                  Wendell asked:

                  >Why don't we just ask him, since he belongs to this mailing list? Hey,
                  >Wayne, are you a professor too?

                  No, at Williams College only the chief College Librarian has faculty
                  status. Which is not to say that we librarians don't teach.

                  Wayne
                • Stolzi@aol.com
                  In a message dated 2/4/2003 9:28:01 PM Central Standard Time, ... I reached it not by that link, which came up with a blank page, but by going to the link for
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
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                    In a message dated 2/4/2003 9:28:01 PM Central Standard Time,
                    thiophene@... writes:


                    > I swear that when I tried this link earlier in the day, I reached the
                    > article, no problem.

                    I reached it not by that link, which came up with a blank page, but by going
                    to the link for the paper's "14-Day Archive" and scrolling down. I captured
                    the text and Listmistress Joan may tell me whether it is legit. to post it
                    here. (It's a Letter to the Editor, anyway, not an article; I would think it
                    remains Wayne's property and that he wouldn't mind, but I don't know)

                    Diamond Proudbrook


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Wayne G. Hammond
                    ... it ... I don t know either: some letters sent to newspapers become the property of the paper, but mine was a letter to a reporter in lieu of a telephone
                    Message 9 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
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                      >I reached it not by that link, which came up with a blank page, but by going
                      >to the link for the paper's "14-Day Archive" and scrolling down. I captured
                      >the text and Listmistress Joan may tell me whether it is legit. to post it
                      >here. (It's a Letter to the Editor, anyway, not an article; I would think
                      it
                      >remains Wayne's property and that he wouldn't mind, but I don't know)

                      I don't know either: some letters sent to newspapers become the property of
                      the paper, but mine was a letter to a reporter in lieu of a telephone
                      interview, not a proper letter to the editor; at the same time, it's an
                      article, but wasn't written as one (the reporter made it so, to my
                      surprise), and it has a copyright notice by the Post-Standard. In any case,
                      it's easy enough to read the piece on site, just go from the link at
                      http://www.syracuse.com/news/poststandard/kirst/index.ssf. No subscription
                      necessary. Just don't try to search for my name through the search box on
                      syracuse.com, for some reason it brings up only the related general article
                      about fans disagreeing about the films. The article in question disappeared
                      from the site for a few hours yesterday, apparently a system glitch, but
                      was restored early this morning.

                      Wayne
                    • Margaret Dean
                      ... *sigh* I would really like to read what Wayne had to say, but I can t get either link to provide a download of the page in anything like a reasonable
                      Message 10 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
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                        "Wayne G. Hammond" wrote:
                        >
                        > >I reached it not by that link, which came up with a blank page, but by
                        > >going to the link for the paper's "14-Day Archive" and scrolling down.
                        > >I captured the text and Listmistress Joan may tell me whether it is
                        > >legit. to post it here. (It's a Letter to the Editor, anyway, not an
                        > >article; I would think it remains Wayne's property and that he wouldn't
                        > >mind, but I don't know)
                        >
                        > I don't know either: some letters sent to newspapers become the property
                        > of the paper, but mine was a letter to a reporter in lieu of a telephone
                        > interview, not a proper letter to the editor; at the same time, it's an
                        > article, but wasn't written as one (the reporter made it so, to my
                        > surprise), and it has a copyright notice by the Post-Standard. In any case,
                        > it's easy enough to read the piece on site, just go from the link at
                        > http://www.syracuse.com/news/poststandard/kirst/index.ssf. No subscription
                        > necessary. Just don't try to search for my name through the search box on
                        > syracuse.com, for some reason it brings up only the related general article
                        > about fans disagreeing about the films. The article in question disappeared
                        > from the site for a few hours yesterday, apparently a system glitch, but
                        > was restored early this morning.

                        *sigh* I would really like to read what Wayne had to say, but I
                        can't get either link to provide a download of the page in
                        anything like a reasonable amount of time. (Just as an
                        indication, I tried the longer version of the link earlier today,
                        and sat there with a book until my screen saver came on -- and I
                        have it on a ten-minute delay.) If some kind person has captured
                        it and could send me a copy by private email, that wouldn't
                        violate copyright, would it?


                        --Margaret Dean
                        <margdean@...>
                      • WendellWag@aol.com
                        A problem with the column from the Syracuse newspaper with Wayne s comments on the films just occurred to me: Where does this columnist Sean Kirst get off
                        Message 11 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
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                          A problem with the column from the Syracuse newspaper with Wayne's comments
                          on the films just occurred to me: Where does this columnist Sean Kirst get
                          off with passing off what's actually a letter from Wayne as one of his
                          columns? Did this guy actually turn this in as his column for the week and
                          get paid for it? (Note that it's his picture by the column, not Wayne's.)
                          Wayne, if I were you, I would write this guy and demand he send you whatever
                          he got paid this week, since you wrote the column for him.

                          Wendell Wagner
                        • Wayne G. Hammond
                          ... When my comments were published in the Post-Standard newspaper, before they went on the web, they were only a sidebar to the main article New War of the
                          Message 12 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
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                            Wendell wrote:

                            >A problem with the column from the Syracuse newspaper with Wayne's comments
                            >on the films just occurred to me: Where does this columnist Sean Kirst get
                            >off with passing off what's actually a letter from Wayne as one of his
                            >columns? Did this guy actually turn this in as his column for the week and
                            >get paid for it? (Note that it's his picture by the column, not Wayne's.)
                            >Wayne, if I were you, I would write this guy and demand he send you whatever
                            >he got paid this week, since you wrote the column for him.

                            When my comments were published in the Post-Standard newspaper, before they
                            went on the web, they were only a sidebar to the main article "New 'War of
                            the Ring' Rages". So Kirst earned his paycheck for the latter. If he
                            hadn't, I certainly would have complained!

                            Wayne
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