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Jackson comments, again

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  • David S. Bratman
    Anybody who thinks I ve been hard on Peter Jackson should read this: http://www.syracuse.com/news/poststandard/kirst/index.ssf?/base/news-0/10360
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 4, 2003
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      Anybody who thinks I've been hard on Peter Jackson should read this:

      http://www.syracuse.com/news/poststandard/kirst/index.ssf?/base/news-0/10360
      68903109090.xml

      I keep telling people that I'm one of the most pro-Jacksonian of Tolkien
      scholars, but they don't believe me ... This is the word as viewed by
      someone who knows Tolkien's work at least ten times as well as I do, so you
      should listen to him.

      - David Bratman
    • Joan Marie Verba
      ... Tried, but it seems that I have to subscribe to get it. Joan ****************************************** Joan Marie Verba verba001@tc.umn.edu
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 4, 2003
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        "David S. Bratman" wrote:
        >
        > Anybody who thinks I've been hard on Peter Jackson should read this:
        >
        > http://www.syracuse.com/news/poststandard/kirst/index.ssf?/base/news-0/10360
        > 68903109090.xml

        Tried, but it seems that I have to subscribe to get it.

        Joan
        ******************************************
        Joan Marie Verba
        verba001@...
        http://www.sff.net/people/Joan.Marie.Verba
      • Ernest Tomlinson
        ... From: Joan Marie Verba To: Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 6:49 PM Subject: [mythsoc] Jackson comments,
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 4, 2003
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          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Joan Marie Verba" <verba001@...>
          To: <mythsoc@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 6:49 PM
          Subject: [mythsoc] Jackson comments, again


          > "David S. Bratman" wrote:
          > >
          > > Anybody who thinks I've been hard on Peter Jackson should read this:
          > >
          > >
          http://www.syracuse.com/news/poststandard/kirst/index.ssf?/base/news-0/10360
          > > 68903109090.xml
          >
          > Tried, but it seems that I have to subscribe to get it.

          I swear that when I tried this link earlier in the day, I reached the
          article, no problem. I suspect that decided that some profit could be had
          from a hot item. It's not cached in Google either, that I can tell.

          I was hoping to read the article again to refresh my memory, but I remember
          enough to make two comments. First, the professor is absolutely right when
          he says that the films aren't even all that good as films, never mind their
          fidelity to _The Lord of the Rings_. I have gotten tired of the standard,
          and unthinking, defence of Jackson's films that runs something like, "Well,
          of course he changed the story, but he _had_ to change the story for it to
          work as a movie, and you have to admit that it's great moviemaking."

          Second, I agree that Eowyn was weakened. Jackson and his collaborators may
          be surprised at this charge, because they obviously thought to build her
          character up into a rival against Arwen, but in enlarging her character they
          also dissipated her. She spends most of her scenes either gazing upon
          Aragorn in watery adoration or consumed with wordless and stoic despair over
          his apparent death.

          Ernest.
        • Croft, Janet B
          I had no problem reaching the article today, either. Good comments throughout. I had been wondering -- is it just my familiarity with the text that makes the
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
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            I had no problem reaching the article today, either. Good comments
            throughout. I had been wondering -- is it just my familiarity with the text
            that makes the moments quoted exactly from the book seem so much richer than
            their surroundings, because I get a frisson of recognition? Or are they
            really that much better? And yes, I think they are. Jackson's added
            dialogue is usually so banal.

            I found this comment intriguing: "In some respects [the films] seem to be
            intended to stand independent of the book, but in others they depend upon it
            for comprehension. One can't have it both ways." Of course, that does lead
            people to buy and read the books -- and then make comparisons, to the
            movies' disadvantage.

            "Sauron's eye over Bard-dur looks like an advertising sign" -- ROTFL!

            Janet

            Janet Brennan Croft
            jbcroft@... <mailto:jbcroft@...>
            http://libraries.ou.edu/ <http://libraries.ou.edu/>
            http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/C/Janet.B.Croft-1/
            <http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/C/Janet.B.Croft-1/>
            -----------------------------------------------------------------
            There are two kinds of people in this world: those who need closure


            > "David S. Bratman" wrote:
            > >
            > > Anybody who thinks I've been hard on Peter Jackson should read this:
            > >
            > >
            http://www.syracuse.com/news/poststandard/kirst/index.ssf?/base/news-0/10360
            <http://www.syracuse.com/news/poststandard/kirst/index.ssf?/base/news-0/1036
            0>
            > > 68903109090.xml
            >
            > Tried, but it seems that I have to subscribe to get it.


            The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
            <http://www.mythsoc.org>

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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • WendellWag@aol.com
            A perhaps trivial nitpick: In a message dated 2/4/2003 10:27:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... Wayne Hammond is a librarian, not a professor. Wendell Wagner
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
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              A perhaps trivial nitpick:

              In a message dated 2/4/2003 10:27:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
              thiophene@... writes:


              > First, the professor is absolutely right . . .

              Wayne Hammond is a librarian, not a professor.

              Wendell Wagner


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Croft, Janet B
              Hey now, he could be both! My title is assistant professor! Janet Janet Brennan Croft jbcroft@ou.edu http://libraries.ou.edu/
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
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                Hey now, he could be both! My title is assistant professor!

                Janet

                Janet Brennan Croft
                jbcroft@...
                http://libraries.ou.edu/ <http://libraries.ou.edu/>
                http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/C/Janet.B.Croft-1/
                <http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/C/Janet.B.Croft-1/>
                -----------------------------------------------------------------
                There are two kinds of people in this world: those who need closure

                -----Original Message-----
                From: WendellWag@... [mailto:WendellWag@...]
                Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 9:33 AM
                To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Jackson comments, again


                A perhaps trivial nitpick:

                In a message dated 2/4/2003 10:27:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                thiophene@... writes:


                > First, the professor is absolutely right . . .

                Wayne Hammond is a librarian, not a professor.

                Wendell Wagner


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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              • WendellWag@aol.com
                In a message dated 2/5/2003 10:39:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, jbcroft@ou.edu ... Why don t we just ask him, since he belongs to this mailing list? Hey,
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
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                  In a message dated 2/5/2003 10:39:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, jbcroft@...
                  writes:


                  > Hey now, he could be both! My title is assistant professor!
                  >

                  Why don't we just ask him, since he belongs to this mailing list? Hey,
                  Wayne, are you a professor too?

                  Wendell Wagner


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Wayne G. Hammond
                  ... No, at Williams College only the chief College Librarian has faculty status. Which is not to say that we librarians don t teach. Wayne
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
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                    Wendell asked:

                    >Why don't we just ask him, since he belongs to this mailing list? Hey,
                    >Wayne, are you a professor too?

                    No, at Williams College only the chief College Librarian has faculty
                    status. Which is not to say that we librarians don't teach.

                    Wayne
                  • Stolzi@aol.com
                    In a message dated 2/4/2003 9:28:01 PM Central Standard Time, ... I reached it not by that link, which came up with a blank page, but by going to the link for
                    Message 9 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
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                      In a message dated 2/4/2003 9:28:01 PM Central Standard Time,
                      thiophene@... writes:


                      > I swear that when I tried this link earlier in the day, I reached the
                      > article, no problem.

                      I reached it not by that link, which came up with a blank page, but by going
                      to the link for the paper's "14-Day Archive" and scrolling down. I captured
                      the text and Listmistress Joan may tell me whether it is legit. to post it
                      here. (It's a Letter to the Editor, anyway, not an article; I would think it
                      remains Wayne's property and that he wouldn't mind, but I don't know)

                      Diamond Proudbrook


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Wayne G. Hammond
                      ... it ... I don t know either: some letters sent to newspapers become the property of the paper, but mine was a letter to a reporter in lieu of a telephone
                      Message 10 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
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                        >I reached it not by that link, which came up with a blank page, but by going
                        >to the link for the paper's "14-Day Archive" and scrolling down. I captured
                        >the text and Listmistress Joan may tell me whether it is legit. to post it
                        >here. (It's a Letter to the Editor, anyway, not an article; I would think
                        it
                        >remains Wayne's property and that he wouldn't mind, but I don't know)

                        I don't know either: some letters sent to newspapers become the property of
                        the paper, but mine was a letter to a reporter in lieu of a telephone
                        interview, not a proper letter to the editor; at the same time, it's an
                        article, but wasn't written as one (the reporter made it so, to my
                        surprise), and it has a copyright notice by the Post-Standard. In any case,
                        it's easy enough to read the piece on site, just go from the link at
                        http://www.syracuse.com/news/poststandard/kirst/index.ssf. No subscription
                        necessary. Just don't try to search for my name through the search box on
                        syracuse.com, for some reason it brings up only the related general article
                        about fans disagreeing about the films. The article in question disappeared
                        from the site for a few hours yesterday, apparently a system glitch, but
                        was restored early this morning.

                        Wayne
                      • Margaret Dean
                        ... *sigh* I would really like to read what Wayne had to say, but I can t get either link to provide a download of the page in anything like a reasonable
                        Message 11 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
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                          "Wayne G. Hammond" wrote:
                          >
                          > >I reached it not by that link, which came up with a blank page, but by
                          > >going to the link for the paper's "14-Day Archive" and scrolling down.
                          > >I captured the text and Listmistress Joan may tell me whether it is
                          > >legit. to post it here. (It's a Letter to the Editor, anyway, not an
                          > >article; I would think it remains Wayne's property and that he wouldn't
                          > >mind, but I don't know)
                          >
                          > I don't know either: some letters sent to newspapers become the property
                          > of the paper, but mine was a letter to a reporter in lieu of a telephone
                          > interview, not a proper letter to the editor; at the same time, it's an
                          > article, but wasn't written as one (the reporter made it so, to my
                          > surprise), and it has a copyright notice by the Post-Standard. In any case,
                          > it's easy enough to read the piece on site, just go from the link at
                          > http://www.syracuse.com/news/poststandard/kirst/index.ssf. No subscription
                          > necessary. Just don't try to search for my name through the search box on
                          > syracuse.com, for some reason it brings up only the related general article
                          > about fans disagreeing about the films. The article in question disappeared
                          > from the site for a few hours yesterday, apparently a system glitch, but
                          > was restored early this morning.

                          *sigh* I would really like to read what Wayne had to say, but I
                          can't get either link to provide a download of the page in
                          anything like a reasonable amount of time. (Just as an
                          indication, I tried the longer version of the link earlier today,
                          and sat there with a book until my screen saver came on -- and I
                          have it on a ten-minute delay.) If some kind person has captured
                          it and could send me a copy by private email, that wouldn't
                          violate copyright, would it?


                          --Margaret Dean
                          <margdean@...>
                        • WendellWag@aol.com
                          A problem with the column from the Syracuse newspaper with Wayne s comments on the films just occurred to me: Where does this columnist Sean Kirst get off
                          Message 12 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
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                            A problem with the column from the Syracuse newspaper with Wayne's comments
                            on the films just occurred to me: Where does this columnist Sean Kirst get
                            off with passing off what's actually a letter from Wayne as one of his
                            columns? Did this guy actually turn this in as his column for the week and
                            get paid for it? (Note that it's his picture by the column, not Wayne's.)
                            Wayne, if I were you, I would write this guy and demand he send you whatever
                            he got paid this week, since you wrote the column for him.

                            Wendell Wagner
                          • Wayne G. Hammond
                            ... When my comments were published in the Post-Standard newspaper, before they went on the web, they were only a sidebar to the main article New War of the
                            Message 13 of 13 , Feb 5, 2003
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                              Wendell wrote:

                              >A problem with the column from the Syracuse newspaper with Wayne's comments
                              >on the films just occurred to me: Where does this columnist Sean Kirst get
                              >off with passing off what's actually a letter from Wayne as one of his
                              >columns? Did this guy actually turn this in as his column for the week and
                              >get paid for it? (Note that it's his picture by the column, not Wayne's.)
                              >Wayne, if I were you, I would write this guy and demand he send you whatever
                              >he got paid this week, since you wrote the column for him.

                              When my comments were published in the Post-Standard newspaper, before they
                              went on the web, they were only a sidebar to the main article "New 'War of
                              the Ring' Rages". So Kirst earned his paycheck for the latter. If he
                              hadn't, I certainly would have complained!

                              Wayne
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