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Re: [mythsoc] Ellison

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  • Max Rible
    ... Urk; I wouldn t call _Moving Mars_ his better work. Try _Eon_ for hard SF (and don t expect _Eternity_ to be up to the quality of _Eon_), _Blood Music_
    Message 1 of 29 , Feb 2, 2003
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      On Sun, 2003-02-02 at 22:06, Ernest Tomlinson wrote:
      > > ...Greg Bear...
      >
      > I got halfway through _Moving Mars_, then stopped. It wasn't bad; I just
      > didn't feel like reading more. I do that too often these days, and feel
      > guilty about it every time.

      Urk; I wouldn't call _Moving Mars_ his better work. Try _Eon_ for
      hard SF (and don't expect _Eternity_ to be up to the quality of
      _Eon_), _Blood Music_ for biotech that Vernor Vinge would think
      nifty, _Songs of Earth and Power_ (aka _The Infinity Concerto_ and
      _The Serpent Mage_) for fantasy.

      > > ...Michael Swanwick...
      >
      > Barbara Stanwyck?

      Try _The Iron Dragon's Daughter_ or _Stations of the Tide_. Should
      be available in a used bookstore for cheap.

      > > ...Dan Simmons...
      >
      > _Endymion_ is his, right? Only sampled it in a store or something.

      _Hyperion_ is the place to start if you want to sample that universe
      of his-- _Endymion_ and _Rise of Endymion_ aren't as good as
      _Hyperion_ and _Fall of Hyperion_. If you're browsing in a bookstore,
      pick up a copy of _Prayers to Broken Stones_ and read the short story
      "Vanni Fucci is Alive and Well and Living in Hell", particularly if
      you've recently re-read _The Screwtape Letters_.

      > _Cyteen_ for example is a
      > wonderful example, and one of my favorite novels; Cherryh explains hardly
      > anything about the technology of cloning or of "taping" the personalities of
      > the clones; she explains enough to get the story going, gives us her cast of
      > characters, and sets _them_ going.

      Cherryh does a really good job of making her aliens alien; I've
      greatly enjoyed her Chanur and Foreigner universes. And the knnn
      can out-enigma the Vorlons and the Arisians together, with their
      tentacles tied in knots.

      --
      %% Max Rible % slothman@... % www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
      %% "Before enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice. %%
      %% After enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice." %%
    • Croft, Janet B
      ... From: Stolzi@aol.com [mailto:Stolzi@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 11:49 AM To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Ellison In a
      Message 2 of 29 , Feb 3, 2003
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        -----Original Message-----
        From: Stolzi@... [mailto:Stolzi@...]
        Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 11:49 AM
        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Ellison


        In a message dated 2/1/2003 12:00:46 AM Central Standard Time,
        WendellWag@... writes:


        > "Adrift
        > Just off the Islets of Langerhans, Latitude Something or Other, Longitude
        > Something Else." (I'm too tired to look up the exact numbers in the
        > title.)
        > He said that they were mentioned in the move _King Kong_ as being the
        > location of Skull Island. Apparently he made up this up on the spot,
        > because
        > there's no such mention in the movie and, besides, the address is actually

        > about 50 feet south of the corner of 2nd and H Street NE in Washington,
        DC.
        >

        Where the Islets of Langerhans probably ARE found from time to time.


        *** But not always the same Islets.... Hundredes of different ones each
        day, I should think.

        8^) Janet



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      • David S. Bratman
        ... Some of Swanwick s short stories are clever, and he s written some halfway-decent fantasy criticism, but a few pages of _The Iron Dragon s Daughter_ sent
        Message 3 of 29 , Feb 3, 2003
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          At 11:59 PM 2/2/2003 , Max Rible wrote:

          >> > ...Michael Swanwick...
          >>
          >
          >Try _The Iron Dragon's Daughter_ or _Stations of the Tide_. Should
          >be available in a used bookstore for cheap.

          Some of Swanwick's short stories are clever, and he's written some
          halfway-decent fantasy criticism, but a few pages of _The Iron Dragon's
          Daughter_ sent me away determined never to return. A few people were
          trying to promote that as the next great genre-defining fantasy. It didn't
          really take that role, but if it did, count me out.

          - David Bratman
        • Max Rible
          ... The only comparable book I can think of is Ian McDonald s _Desolation Road_, which is a novel about the colonization of Mars done in a magical-realism
          Message 4 of 29 , Feb 3, 2003
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            On Mon, 2003-02-03 at 08:46, David S. Bratman wrote:
            > Some of Swanwick's short stories are clever, and he's written some
            > halfway-decent fantasy criticism, but a few pages of _The Iron Dragon's
            > Daughter_ sent me away determined never to return. A few people were
            > trying to promote that as the next great genre-defining fantasy. It didn't
            > really take that role, but if it did, count me out.

            The only comparable book I can think of is Ian McDonald's _Desolation
            Road_, which is a novel about the colonization of Mars done in a
            magical-realism style.
            --
            %% Max Rible % slothman@... % www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
            %% "Before enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice. %%
            %% After enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice." %%
          • chris.
            Ernest: Ernest Potlatch, that s local, isn t it? I mean, local to me, here Ernest in Seattle, at least part of the time; maybe it jumps around Ernest the
            Message 5 of 29 , Feb 3, 2003
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              Ernest:
              Ernest> Potlatch, that's local, isn't it? I mean, local to me, here
              Ernest> in Seattle, at least part of the time; maybe it jumps around
              Ernest> the West Coast. At least, I remember or think I remember it
              Ernest> met once at a hotel in Wallingford.

              Potlach is, indeed, a migratory West Coast con.
              [http://www.potlatch-sf.org/%5d Potlach 9 (2000) was in Seattle, as was
              Potlach 11 (2002). That is, according to the Potlach website they
              were. I've never been, having found out about it about a wk after
              last yr's con.

              Looks like Potlach is in San Francisco this yr.





              chris.
              --
              [ mail : wrdnrd@... ]
              [ news : sff.people.wrdnrd ]
              [ web : www.wrdnrd.com ]
            • Ernest Tomlinson
              ... From: David S Bratman To: Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 10:53 PM Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Ellison [on
              Message 6 of 29 , Feb 4, 2003
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                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "David S Bratman" <dbratman@...>
                To: <mythsoc@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 10:53 PM
                Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Ellison

                [on the prospect of getting insulted by Harlan Ellison]
                > Somehow I've never considered tongue-lashings to be pleasurable
                > experiences, even long afterwards.

                Who said anything about pleasurable? Memorable, I said. And great currency
                at parties; a flaying from Ellison is probably worth ten stories about car
                accidents or digging through the dumpster for my retainer in junior high
                school.

                > And a great shame, too. Pre-1980s Asimov is by far my favorite of all the
                > SF writers of his generation (the ones who arrived in the 1937-49
                > Campbellian period). Yes, I like that old Foundation trilogy, but it was
                > the first book-length SF I ever read, at age 15.

                The problem--one of the problems--with the Foundation stories is that
                Asimov, often unable or unwilling to _show_ us the resolution of the crises
                he has set up, resorts to long conversation scenes in which we're told,
                rather than shown, that the crisis is resolved. The last story in the
                original _Foundation_ provides one of the most egregious examples: Hober
                Mallow invites his enemy Sutt over for tea and tells him, and us, at length
                that he's solved the latest Seldon crisis--and that's that. Also, Asimov
                has a rather strange idea of psychology.

                > Is it fashionable to deride _Neuromancer_? Not anywhere that I've been,
                > but perhaps I don't get out much.

                I'm thinking mostly of r.a.sf.written, where I don't think I saw a single
                positive comment about _Neuromancer_ in three years. Gibson was universally
                derided for his computer illiteracy and his inability to follow up on the
                success of _Neuromancer_.

                > Nor did I find the prose too memorable...

                I'll never forget many of the scenes from _Neuromancer_, particularly Case's
                dream of knocking down the wasp's nest, and seeing the Tessier-Ashpool logo
                embossed on the side. (I'm not sure why that scene is the one I can least
                forget.) You're right, _Neuromancer_ is more style than story; individual
                scenes work, but the whole is less than the sum of its parts. But compare
                _Neuromancer_ to _Snow Crash_--urgh, there's a _bad_ book.

                > Do you like classical music? I gathered from an earlier post of yours
                > mentioning it that it had been stuffed down your throat by your parents
                and
                > you wound up disliking it.

                Not disliking it, just not liking it as much. About half my LP collection
                is classical music, though these days I listen more to rock. I'll elaborate
                offlist.

                > You beat me, then. I didn't give up on popular music entirely until I was
                > about 27 (which was 1984, so it's hardly comparable), took immediately to
                > pocket calculators and electric typewriters (neither of which were
                > available, at least to me, when I first could have used them), and prefer
                > FM radio to AM because there's more classical music on it.

                I liked the Selectric; that's a good typewriter, and I'm convinced that I
                can type about 20 wpm faster on it than on any other machine. I also own a
                "Coronamatic" or similar Smith-Corona electric, with manual-style typebars
                and shifting, but I don't like it as much. Word processing, though, has
                probably defiled my writing habits permanently, and it would be hard for me
                now to return to typewriting.

                Perhaps we can meet someday at Potlatch. Probably not this year, because I
                have no money to travel to San Francisco.

                Cheers,

                Ernest.
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