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Viewing #3 (skip this if you hate the film)

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  • SusanPal@aol.com
    Okay, so I went to see TTT again today, and picked up a few new random observations: 1. It seems to me that Hama, Theoden s doorguard, retains some of his
    Message 1 of 4 , Jan 7, 2003
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      Okay, so I went to see TTT again today, and picked up a few new random
      observations:

      1. It seems to me that Hama, Theoden's doorguard, retains some of his
      heroism from the book, although in a rather different (and more subtle, for a
      wonder?) form. It was pretty clear to me on this viewing that he *knew* he
      wasn't supposed to let Gandalf in with his staff, but did it anyway because
      he wanted Grima defeated. And it was a nice touch that, as in the book, he's
      the one who hands Theoden his sword.

      2. At Isengard, when Grima follows Saruman out to review the troops and
      Saruman says that everyone at Helm's Deep will be killed, Grima looks
      distinctly devastated for a moment, and there's actually a tear running down
      his cheek. Could he be weeping for Eowyn? On the other hand, Grima always
      seems to have wet cheeks -- he's the soggiest creature I've ever seen, worse
      than Gollum -- so perhaps I'm making too much of this.

      3. The good guys have longbows. The bad guys have crossbows. This is
      presumably in accordance with the "more technologically advanced = more evil"
      theme, but it puzzled me anyway.

      4. Right around Haldir's death scene, the camera lingers for a moment on a
      pile of dead elvish warriors, and there's a distinct visual echo of the Dead
      Marshes: nicely done!

      A friend tells me that when the Ents are destroying Isengard, at one point
      there's a shot of Saruman and his robes shimmer in different colors -- a nice
      visual nod to the book -- but I haven't been able to spot that yet (and I
      really looked this time, so I'm starting to wonder if she made it up).

      Susan
    • Ernest Tomlinson
      From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 4:39 PM Subject: [mythsoc] Viewing #3 (skip this if you hate the film)
      Message 2 of 4 , Jan 7, 2003
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        From: <SusanPal@...>
        To: <mythsoc@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 4:39 PM
        Subject: [mythsoc] Viewing #3 (skip this if you hate the film)

        > 2. At Isengard, when Grima follows Saruman out to review the troops and
        > Saruman says that everyone at Helm's Deep will be killed, Grima looks
        > distinctly devastated for a moment, and there's actually a tear running
        down
        > his cheek.

        I took this as Jackson's way of showing us that J-Grima is so craven, so
        deeply in bed with Saruman, that the display of Orthanc's might brings a
        tear to the wretched little minion's eye.

        > 3. The good guys have longbows. The bad guys have crossbows. This is
        > presumably in accordance with the "more technologically advanced = more
        evil"
        > theme, but it puzzled me anyway.

        I believe this was a direct reference to the battle of Agincourt, or rather
        to the semi-mythologized accounts of the battle (q.v. Shakespeare's _Henry
        V_) in which a small contingent of English longbowmen mows down acres of
        clumsy, heavily-armored Frenchmen.

        Cheers,

        Ernest.
      • SusanPal@aol.com
        In a message dated 1/7/2003 5:15:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, ... Ah -- I like your reading better than mine! What do you make of his runny eyes through the
        Message 3 of 4 , Jan 7, 2003
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          In a message dated 1/7/2003 5:15:12 PM Pacific Standard Time,
          thiophene@... writes:


          > I took this as Jackson's way of showing us that J-Grima is so craven, so
          > deeply in bed with Saruman, that the display of Orthanc's might brings a
          > tear to the wretched little minion's eye.
          >

          Ah -- I like your reading better than mine! What do you make of his runny
          eyes through the rest of the film, then?

          Susan


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • JP Massar
          ... Another interpretation is that along with weeping for Eowyn, as Susan suggests, he realizes that everyone and everything he knows is about to be wiped out.
          Message 4 of 4 , Jan 7, 2003
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            At 10:30 PM 1/7/03 -0500, SusanPal@... wrote:
            >In a message dated 1/7/2003 5:15:12 PM Pacific Standard Time,
            >thiophene@... writes:
            >
            >
            > > I took this as Jackson's way of showing us that J-Grima is so craven, so
            > > deeply in bed with Saruman, that the display of Orthanc's might brings a
            > > tear to the wretched little minion's eye.
            > >
            >
            >Ah -- I like your reading better than mine! What do you make of his runny
            >eyes through the rest of the film, then?

            Another interpretation is that along with weeping for Eowyn, as Susan
            suggests, he realizes that everyone and everything he knows is about
            to be wiped out. He is going to be very lonely.

            Or it could be a combination -- he weeps in awe of the power that he
            has allied himself with as suggested above, and at the same time in
            sorrow.
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