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Re: [mythsoc] Digest Number 1089

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  • tghsaw
    ... From: darancgrissom@sbcglobal.net To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Digest Number 1089 ... From:
    Message 1 of 31 , Jan 4, 2003
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: darancgrissom@...
      To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 5:27 PM
      Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Digest Number 1089

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: tghsaw
      To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 3:29 AM
      Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Digest Number 1089

      >>> The moral depends on who you think Tolkien is speaking to. If you take the view that he his speaking to us as shirefolk, his message is that even the smallest person can make a difference (that does sound familiar dosen't it). If, on the other hand , you take the view that Tolkien sopke to us as heroes with claim to the blood of Numenor the message is that the line between pristine good (the hobbits) and industrial evil (sauron/saruman) is one that must be maintained at all costs, for at the end Merry and Pippin may have had good lives, but they were Captains, and taller than before the war. Much like men.

      >>"And, Diamond ([insert embarrassed face] I think that's who I'm replying to--I seem to have chopped the name off the original message)"

      >Actually that was me for the record.

      ----Thanks. -- Trudy

      And in order to make this a bit more than a one-word note, I'll add that it's been a fun and interesting couple of weeks. With the holidays now over I'll be back in the mode of being lucky if I have time to *read* everyone's insights on the list, much less contribute my own.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • John Davis
      Thanks everyone! John ... From: Darrell A. Martin To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 10:45 PM Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Shelob ... Hi:
      Message 31 of 31 , Mar 28, 2011
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        Thanks everyone!
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 10:45 PM
        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Shelob


        On 3/25/2011 9:25 AM, Troels Forchhammer wrote:
        > On 25 March 2011 14:51, <aveeris523@... <mailto:aveeris523@...>>
        > wrote:
        > In a message dated 3/25/11 6:09:24 AM, john@...
        > <mailto:john@...> writes:
        > Did any of the Free Peoples know about Shelob before Sam and
        > Frodo encountered her? Gandalf, perhaps, or Faramir since he
        > spent much time in Ithilien?
        > That's an interesting question John; the orcs certainly did! I'll
        > check _LOTR: A Reader's Companion_, Hammond & Scull.
        > My impression is that people had certainly known /about/ Shelob (hence
        > the name of the pass, the Pass of the Spider) but the specifics had been
        > forgotten, leaving it to simply 'have a bad name'. Unless I misremember,
        > there is somewhere a hint that Gandalf might have told Frodo more about
        > the pass and its name.
        > /Troels


        Faramir told Frodo that when the name Cirith Ungol was brought up to the
        old loremasters, they were frightened by it and refused to discuss it.
        In the same conversation he mentioned that the young men of Gondor no
        longer ventured east of the Ithilien road.

        Clearly, among the old and learned the meaning of Cirith Ungol was still
        known, at the time of the War of the Ring. But the details were not
        discussed, and none of Faramir's generation had any experience of the pass.

        I think it is a bit of a stretch to think Frodo would have automatically
        translated "Cirith Ungol" to "mountain pass where one or more giant
        spiders currently live". Yes, he *could* have thought that, or suspected
        it (and perhaps he did). Regardless, however, Gollum was right when he
        said that if Master wanted to enter Mordor, he had to go some way, and
        that no way was safe; and Frodo was right when he rejected the idea of
        going back to the Black Gate and surrendering on the spot. Damn the
        spiders, full speed ahead.


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