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Re: [mythsoc] Possible Spoilers About end of ROTK movie

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  • Matthew Winslow
    ... The fact that the scouring of the Shire is left out entirely makes me shudder. How do we rightly get Frodo to the Grey Havens without the scouring? Sure,
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 2, 2003
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      spark654@... [spark654@...] wrote:
      > Jackson's noises about the ending give me hope. In the three places I've
      > read his comments, he has basically set the stage for the viewer, saying (I'm
      > paraphrasing) they go through hell, and are changed forever, etc. He's also
      > said there is no burning of the Shire, and that the last scene takes place in
      > the Grey Havens or wherever it is they sail off to.

      The fact that the scouring of the Shire is left out entirely makes me shudder.
      How do we rightly get Frodo to the Grey Havens without the scouring? Sure, you
      can say, 'well, Frodo wanted to go there coz his wounds hurt him', etc., but
      it's the scouring that really establishes all that has been both won and lost
      by the War of the Ring. I'm afraid that what we're going to find /is/ a
      variant on 'and they lived happily ever after.'

      --
      Matthew Winslow mwinslow@... http://x-real.firinn.org/
      "I've figured out an alternative to me giving up my beer. Basically, we
      become a family of traveling acrobats."
      --Homer Simpson
      Currently reading: J.R.R. Tolkien: Author of the Century by Tom Shippey
    • SusanPal@aol.com
      In a message dated 1/2/2003 9:37:08 AM Pacific Standard Time, ... I highly doubt it. Jackson has already emphasized the fact that Frodo will never fully heal;
      Message 2 of 5 , Jan 2, 2003
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        In a message dated 1/2/2003 9:37:08 AM Pacific Standard Time,
        mwinslow-sf@... writes:


        > I'm afraid that what we're going to find /is/ a
        > variant on 'and they lived happily ever after.'
        >

        I highly doubt it. Jackson has already emphasized the fact that Frodo will
        never fully heal; it seems to me that the films hammer this point home
        earlier than the book does. That's what's behind the film conversation
        between Frodo and Sam, when Sam tells Frodo that he can't save Gollum, and
        Frodo says something like, "But I have to try, because I have to have faith
        that he can come back." Sam knows, and we know, that isn't going to happen
        -- and that even if Frodo doesn't wind up as badly off as Gollum, his own
        prognosis isn't cheery.

        Susan


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • David S. Bratman
        ... You just fade from the victory celebration to the (previously established fact) that the Elves are sailing away, and the extend their hands and take Bilbo
        Message 3 of 5 , Jan 2, 2003
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          At 07:46 AM 1/2/2003 , Matthew Winslow wrote:

          >The fact that the scouring of the Shire is left out entirely makes me shudder.
          >How do we rightly get Frodo to the Grey Havens without the scouring?

          You just fade from the victory celebration to the (previously established
          fact) that the Elves are sailing away, and the extend their hands and take
          Bilbo and Frodo with them. Of course you miss most of Tolkien's point that
          way, but it isn't narratively incoherent. Missing Tolkien's point while
          being narratively coherent is a Jackson specialty.

          >I'm afraid that what we're going to find /is/ a
          >variant on 'and they lived happily ever after.'

          Sure we'll get that too, but like Susan I don't think we'll get _only_ that.

          - David Bratman
        • Matthew Winslow
          ... Yeah, that s what I meant by rightly get -- it s possible narratively, but that s reducing the whole scouring to an issue of the narrative alone. And, as
          Message 4 of 5 , Jan 2, 2003
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            David S. Bratman [dbratman@...] wrote:
            > >The fact that the scouring of the Shire is left out entirely makes me shudder.
            > >How do we rightly get Frodo to the Grey Havens without the scouring?
            >
            > You just fade from the victory celebration to the (previously established
            > fact) that the Elves are sailing away, and the extend their hands and take
            > Bilbo and Frodo with them. Of course you miss most of Tolkien's point that
            > way, but it isn't narratively incoherent. Missing Tolkien's point while
            > being narratively coherent is a Jackson specialty.

            Yeah, that's what I meant by 'rightly get' -- it's possible narratively, but
            that's reducing the whole scouring to an issue of the narrative alone. And, as
            sparkdog pointed out, the scouring can be a bit of a let-down as far as
            plotting goes, but it's so essential as far as telling the story properly
            goes. Frodo at Mithlond is, I'm afraid, going to be quite shallow, not to
            mention the growth that is finally realized in the other hobbits upon their
            return to the Shire.

            But, as always, you put it quite well, David.

            --
            Matthew Winslow mwinslow@... http://x-real.firinn.org/
            "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds;
            and the pessimist fears this is true."
            --James Branch Cabell
            Currently reading: J.R.R. Tolkien: Author of the Century by Tom Shippey
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