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  • Liz Milner
    In Scr(i)pt Magazine (vol 8, #6) there is an interview with Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens where they discuss scripting for the LOTR films. They make it sound
    Message 1 of 31 , Jan 1, 2003
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      In Scr(i)pt Magazine (vol 8, #6) there is an interview with Fran Walsh and
      Philippa Boyens where they discuss scripting for the LOTR films. They make
      it sound like Shelob is definately a part of the Return of the King. The
      article also explains the rationale for many of the other plot changes that
      are making me crazy.

      To do a quick and dirty summary, Jackson felt that the focus of the Two
      Towers would be on genocide, ie, the Dark Lord and Saruman's attempt to get
      rid of the race of men (funny, I don't remember this being their intention
      in the novel). Therefore the focus was shifted to men and the Battle of
      Helms Deep was made the central event of the film. Goodbye scenes of Heroic
      Hobbits, Frodo's verbal sparring with Faramir, Ents to the rescue, etc.
      Since Helms Deep was the centerpiece of the film, Shelob had to be moved to
      film three because two mega-climaxes one right after the other would "kill
      each other."

      The magazine's website is www.scriptmag.com

      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: spark654@... [mailto:spark654@...]
      > Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 8:14 PM
      > To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Digest Number 1089
      > In a message dated 12/31/02 7:33:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
      > mythsoc@yahoogroups.com writes:
      > > Despite the big deal made of the absence of Shelob in TTT and Jackson's
      > > apologies about it in, for instance, his discussion on TTT in
      > LOTR Fan Club
      > > magazine, she is there, but at the very end, and only by reference.
      > > Whether that will be a dangling reference, not to be picked up
      > in "Return
      > > of the King", will remain to be seen.
      > All along I've thought Shelob was simply moved to the third film;
      > yours is
      > the first reference I've seen to Shelob being dumped instead of moved.
      > Jackson said he moved it because it would be too much to start
      > building up
      > the excitement all over again. I agree; i like how the movie
      > ends, on a note
      > of impending doom, after a double victory.
      > I'll try to find the reference, but Jackson recently spoke about how
      > wonderful the Shelob sequence is, and that it makes a great beginning for
      > ROTK.
      > Sparkdog
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    • John Davis
      Thanks everyone! John ... From: Darrell A. Martin To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 10:45 PM Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Shelob ... Hi:
      Message 31 of 31 , Mar 28, 2011
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        Thanks everyone!
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 10:45 PM
        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Shelob


        On 3/25/2011 9:25 AM, Troels Forchhammer wrote:
        > On 25 March 2011 14:51, <aveeris523@... <mailto:aveeris523@...>>
        > wrote:
        > In a message dated 3/25/11 6:09:24 AM, john@...
        > <mailto:john@...> writes:
        > Did any of the Free Peoples know about Shelob before Sam and
        > Frodo encountered her? Gandalf, perhaps, or Faramir since he
        > spent much time in Ithilien?
        > That's an interesting question John; the orcs certainly did! I'll
        > check _LOTR: A Reader's Companion_, Hammond & Scull.
        > My impression is that people had certainly known /about/ Shelob (hence
        > the name of the pass, the Pass of the Spider) but the specifics had been
        > forgotten, leaving it to simply 'have a bad name'. Unless I misremember,
        > there is somewhere a hint that Gandalf might have told Frodo more about
        > the pass and its name.
        > /Troels


        Faramir told Frodo that when the name Cirith Ungol was brought up to the
        old loremasters, they were frightened by it and refused to discuss it.
        In the same conversation he mentioned that the young men of Gondor no
        longer ventured east of the Ithilien road.

        Clearly, among the old and learned the meaning of Cirith Ungol was still
        known, at the time of the War of the Ring. But the details were not
        discussed, and none of Faramir's generation had any experience of the pass.

        I think it is a bit of a stretch to think Frodo would have automatically
        translated "Cirith Ungol" to "mountain pass where one or more giant
        spiders currently live". Yes, he *could* have thought that, or suspected
        it (and perhaps he did). Regardless, however, Gollum was right when he
        said that if Master wanted to enter Mordor, he had to go some way, and
        that no way was safe; and Frodo was right when he rejected the idea of
        going back to the Black Gate and surrendering on the spot. Damn the
        spiders, full speed ahead.


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