Subject: Re: On "LOTR: The Two Towers"; "improvement"?
- <<Jan Theodore Galkowski wrote: The rendering of Sauron's eye is the more
serious gaff, because it both breaks with a strong impression given in the
"Fellowship" movie and because it trivializes Sauron's power.>>
<<David Bratman wrote: Bringing Sauron onstage in the prologue, however
massive and powerful, also limits him.>>
Both correct, but the damnable sin is that after establishing this
supposedly terrible evil they then give him absolutely nothing to do but sit
and wait to be destroyed. IIRC in the book isn't it Sauron who sends the
snow against the party and not Saruman? So Saruman knows where the
ringbearer is precisely enough to bring down an avalanche on him with a
lightning bolt, and he speaks to Sauron regularly, but he didn't think to
raise this point? Or if he did the Dark Lord thought, "nah, I've got some
particularly evil dusting to do today, the orcs are painting the spare room
and I've sent the Nazgul out for a pint of milk, we'll get the ring back
I always felt the eye was physically AT Barad-Dur, if not an actual physical
eye, so I didn't mind the big flaming eye on the top of the tower. A
literal interpretation of the word eye did rather miss the concept of
watchfulness though. What are the odds that the Mouth of Sauron is actually
a huge flaming pair of lips? Perhaps the reason Saruman is responsible for
the inclement weather is because if Gandalf had said, his arm has grown
long, then they would have felt compelled to show Sauron's large fiery arm
stretching from Mordor waving a salt shaker above them.
- At 11:49 PM 1/1/2003 +0000, David F. Porteous wrote:
>IIRC in the book isn't it Sauron who sends theThis is speculated by Gimli and Gandalf, but not confirmed explicitly. In
>snow against the party and not Saruman?
the end, Gimli attributes their troubles to the mountain itself. In
general, Tolkien postulates that there are sources of evil independent of
Sauron. Shelob is an obvious example. Aragorn mentions this principle in
the discussion of Caradhras: "There are many evil and unfriendly things in
the world that have little love for those that go on two legs, and yet are
not in league with Sauron, but have purposes of their own. Some have been
in this world longer than he." They may be roused by Sauron or his
activities, though: apparently the Balrog was, for instance.
>So Saruman knows where theThis was a particular problem for me. The purpose is the Fellowship being
>ringbearer is precisely enough to bring down an avalanche on him with a
>lightning bolt, and he speaks to Sauron regularly, but he didn't think to
>raise this point?
a small party was for them to slip through without special notice. Gandalf
is nervous when he calls attention to himself. Having the enemy be
consciously aware of the Fellowship's every motion is a major change from
>I always felt the eye was physically AT Barad-Dur, if not an actual physicalSauron was physically in Barad-dur, and being in its sight-line renders the
>eye, so I didn't mind the big flaming eye on the top of the tower.
Eye especially painful, but there was no big physical plasma eye up there,
any more than, as you suggest,
>What are the odds that the Mouth of Sauron is actuallyAt 12:29 AM 1/2/2003 +0000, Blake Adams wrote:
>a huge flaming pair of lips?
> I'll start by including my own prediction: At the Crack of Doom,Are you aware that this is pretty much what happens in one of the abandoned
>after Gollum rests the Ring from Frodo's finger and is dancing around
>in joy, he falls off the edge *not* by "accident" but by Sam jumping
>up from where Gollum had knocked him down and knocking Gollum over
>the edge like a football linebacker.
drafts of the story?
Having someone carry a hobbit on horseback through Eriador like a sack of
potatoes, like J-Arwen carries J-Frodo, also happens in the abandoned drafts.
At 04:53 PM 1/1/2003 -0800, JP Massar wrote:
>I thought the prologue to FoTR was an amazing achievement, one of theI thought it worked pretty well if one had to have a prologue of this kind,
>really brilliant parts of the movie.
but my amazement at it was due entirely to my sense of wonder not yet being
dulled by the endless battles of the rest of the film.
At 02:34 AM 1/2/2003 +0000, Jan Theodore Galkowski wrote:
>In the first instance, there is a clear acceptance of change. It isIt acknowledges the inevitability of change, but does so in a regretful
>such a basic one that it is difficult to square that expression with
>the hypothesis that it was an enduring shock regarding Sarehole Mill
>which moved Tolkien to regret industrialization.
manner. It does not at all mean that Frodo, or Tolkien, has to like it, or
cannot work against it.
>In the second instance, the skills of the elves are judged as a kindTrue, but that was what I was saying, so I can't square this with your
>of technology, not magic. It may be a technology which hobbits and
>men and dwarfs have forgotten, as we may have, but it is technology
earlier statement that you thought the LOTR text did not support some of my
- In a message dated 1/2/2003 12:04:08 PM Central Standard Time,
> Shelob is an obvious example. Aragorn mentions this principle inEight legs GOOD!
> the discussion of Caradhras: "There are many evil and unfriendly things in
> the world that have little love for those that go on two legs
Two legs BAD!
Diamond Proudbrook, smirking
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