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Broader World

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  • spark654@aol.com
    In a message dated 12/31/02 10:16:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... In all matters of the books I defer to those who actually read them! :D I always felt that
    Message 1 of 3 , Dec 31, 2002
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      In a message dated 12/31/02 10:16:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,
      mythsoc@yahoogroups.com writes:


      > Well, the part about the Industrial Revolution helps me understand your
      > putting Tolkien in that category 8-) . But IMHO, he doesn't show the
      > parochial Shire society as being idyllic, but rather as suffering some dire
      > consequences because of its (unsuccessful) efforts to cut itself off from
      > the rest of Middle-earth. So I don't think it comes across as a model,
      > especially since the heroes of the story go out and get involved in the
      > broader world.
      >
      > --Trudy
      >

      In all matters of the books I defer to those who actually read them! :D

      I always felt that the writers who call Tolkien a racist and
      closed-minded--like Brin in his Slate article--were being just a bit glib,
      taking bits and pieces and creating a "case" against Tolkien. But in the
      case of his distaste for the big world, I think Tolkien might enjoy these big
      adventures, but it doesn't seem to bring his characters joy or fulfillment.
      In the end, if I have it right, Frodo is disturbed by his adventures, and
      they have "ruined" his simple life in the Shire. And going off into the west
      with the pure non-industrial elves doesn't sound like someone who thinks
      progress is so wonderful.

      But understand, these are just impressions, and as stated I defer to your
      informed opinion.

      Sparkdog


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ernest Tomlinson
      ... God, _that_. Brin is an idiot. ... _Frodo_ is disturbed, yes, but Merry and Pippin, and to an extent Sam, all derive new energy and decisiveness from
      Message 2 of 3 , Dec 31, 2002
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        On 12/31/02 7:55 PM, "spark654@..." <spark654@...> wrote:

        > I always felt that the writers who call Tolkien a racist and
        > closed-minded--like Brin in his Slate article--

        God, _that_. Brin is an idiot.

        > ...I think Tolkien might enjoy these big
        > adventures, but it doesn't seem to bring his characters joy or fulfillment.
        > In the end, if I have it right, Frodo is disturbed by his adventures, and
        > they have "ruined" his simple life in the Shire.

        _Frodo_ is disturbed, yes, but Merry and Pippin, and to an extent Sam, all
        derive new energy and decisiveness from their experience; they all end up
        leaders, with long marriages and lots of children. If Frodo's simple life
        in the Shire was ruined, it was not mere adventuring that did it. My own
        take is that Frodo can never find peace again because, at the crucial moment
        of trial, he flunked: he succumbed to the Ring, and in a sense when the
        Ring was destroyed, a shadow of the fate which overtook Sauron also claimed
        Frodo. A part of him was destroyed.

        Ernest.
      • David J Finnamore
        Been lurking on and off for a while, but couldn t help being roused by this: ... Please see RotK, ch. 9 (p. 1067 in Houghton Mifflin s single-volume 1993
        Message 3 of 3 , Jan 1, 2003
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          Been lurking on and off for a while, but couldn't help being roused by this:

          Ernest Tomlinson wrote:

          > > ...I think Tolkien might enjoy these big
          > > adventures, but it doesn't seem to bring his characters joy or fulfillment.
          > > In the end, if I have it right, Frodo is disturbed by his adventures, and
          > > they have "ruined" his simple life in the Shire.
          >
          > _Frodo_ is disturbed, yes, but Merry and Pippin, and to an extent Sam, all
          > derive new energy and decisiveness from their experience; they all end up
          > leaders, with long marriages and lots of children. If Frodo's simple life
          > in the Shire was ruined, it was not mere adventuring that did it. My own
          > take is that Frodo can never find peace again because, at the crucial moment
          > of trial, he flunked: he succumbed to the Ring, and in a sense when the
          > Ring was destroyed, a shadow of the fate which overtook Sauron also claimed
          > Frodo. A part of him was destroyed.

          Please see RotK, ch. 9 (p. 1067 in Houghton Mifflin's single-volume 1993 edition):

          " 'But,' said Sam, and tears started in his eyes, 'I thought you were going to
          enjoy the Shire, to, for years and years, after all you have done.'
          'So I thought too, once. But I have been too deeply hurt, Sam. I tried to save
          the Shire, and it has been saved, but not for me. It must often be so, Sam, when
          things are in danger: some one has to give them up, lose them, so that others may
          keep them.'"

          For me, this is the crowning passage of LotR. It is as fine an example of Faerie
          evangelium as you'll find anywhere, I think. Part of Frodo was destroyed, not
          because he flunked, but because he sacrificed himself for his friends.

          --
          David J. Finnamore
          Nashville, TN, USA
          http://www.elvenminstrel.com
          --
          "A story must be told or there'll be no story, yet it is the untold stories that
          are most moving: mountains seen far away, never to be climbed, distant trees (like
          Niggle's) never to be approached." - J.R.R. Tolkien, letters
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