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Possible Spoilers About end of ROTK movie

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  • spark654@aol.com
    In a message dated 12/31/02 7:33:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... Jackson s noises about the ending give me hope. In the three places I ve read his comments,
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 31 5:23 PM
      In a message dated 12/31/02 7:33:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
      mythsoc@yahoogroups.com writes:


      > If the third movie ends with the narration, "And they all
      > > lived happily ever after," then Peter Jackson really missed the point of
      > the
      > > story.
      >

      Jackson's noises about the ending give me hope. In the three places I've
      read his comments, he has basically set the stage for the viewer, saying (I'm
      paraphrasing) they go through hell, and are changed forever, etc. He's also
      said there is no burning of the Shire, and that the last scene takes place in
      the Grey Havens or wherever it is they sail off to.

      Sparkdog


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Matthew Winslow
      ... The fact that the scouring of the Shire is left out entirely makes me shudder. How do we rightly get Frodo to the Grey Havens without the scouring? Sure,
      Message 2 of 5 , Jan 2, 2003
        spark654@... [spark654@...] wrote:
        > Jackson's noises about the ending give me hope. In the three places I've
        > read his comments, he has basically set the stage for the viewer, saying (I'm
        > paraphrasing) they go through hell, and are changed forever, etc. He's also
        > said there is no burning of the Shire, and that the last scene takes place in
        > the Grey Havens or wherever it is they sail off to.

        The fact that the scouring of the Shire is left out entirely makes me shudder.
        How do we rightly get Frodo to the Grey Havens without the scouring? Sure, you
        can say, 'well, Frodo wanted to go there coz his wounds hurt him', etc., but
        it's the scouring that really establishes all that has been both won and lost
        by the War of the Ring. I'm afraid that what we're going to find /is/ a
        variant on 'and they lived happily ever after.'

        --
        Matthew Winslow mwinslow@... http://x-real.firinn.org/
        "I've figured out an alternative to me giving up my beer. Basically, we
        become a family of traveling acrobats."
        --Homer Simpson
        Currently reading: J.R.R. Tolkien: Author of the Century by Tom Shippey
      • SusanPal@aol.com
        In a message dated 1/2/2003 9:37:08 AM Pacific Standard Time, ... I highly doubt it. Jackson has already emphasized the fact that Frodo will never fully heal;
        Message 3 of 5 , Jan 2, 2003
          In a message dated 1/2/2003 9:37:08 AM Pacific Standard Time,
          mwinslow-sf@... writes:


          > I'm afraid that what we're going to find /is/ a
          > variant on 'and they lived happily ever after.'
          >

          I highly doubt it. Jackson has already emphasized the fact that Frodo will
          never fully heal; it seems to me that the films hammer this point home
          earlier than the book does. That's what's behind the film conversation
          between Frodo and Sam, when Sam tells Frodo that he can't save Gollum, and
          Frodo says something like, "But I have to try, because I have to have faith
          that he can come back." Sam knows, and we know, that isn't going to happen
          -- and that even if Frodo doesn't wind up as badly off as Gollum, his own
          prognosis isn't cheery.

          Susan


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • David S. Bratman
          ... You just fade from the victory celebration to the (previously established fact) that the Elves are sailing away, and the extend their hands and take Bilbo
          Message 4 of 5 , Jan 2, 2003
            At 07:46 AM 1/2/2003 , Matthew Winslow wrote:

            >The fact that the scouring of the Shire is left out entirely makes me shudder.
            >How do we rightly get Frodo to the Grey Havens without the scouring?

            You just fade from the victory celebration to the (previously established
            fact) that the Elves are sailing away, and the extend their hands and take
            Bilbo and Frodo with them. Of course you miss most of Tolkien's point that
            way, but it isn't narratively incoherent. Missing Tolkien's point while
            being narratively coherent is a Jackson specialty.

            >I'm afraid that what we're going to find /is/ a
            >variant on 'and they lived happily ever after.'

            Sure we'll get that too, but like Susan I don't think we'll get _only_ that.

            - David Bratman
          • Matthew Winslow
            ... Yeah, that s what I meant by rightly get -- it s possible narratively, but that s reducing the whole scouring to an issue of the narrative alone. And, as
            Message 5 of 5 , Jan 2, 2003
              David S. Bratman [dbratman@...] wrote:
              > >The fact that the scouring of the Shire is left out entirely makes me shudder.
              > >How do we rightly get Frodo to the Grey Havens without the scouring?
              >
              > You just fade from the victory celebration to the (previously established
              > fact) that the Elves are sailing away, and the extend their hands and take
              > Bilbo and Frodo with them. Of course you miss most of Tolkien's point that
              > way, but it isn't narratively incoherent. Missing Tolkien's point while
              > being narratively coherent is a Jackson specialty.

              Yeah, that's what I meant by 'rightly get' -- it's possible narratively, but
              that's reducing the whole scouring to an issue of the narrative alone. And, as
              sparkdog pointed out, the scouring can be a bit of a let-down as far as
              plotting goes, but it's so essential as far as telling the story properly
              goes. Frodo at Mithlond is, I'm afraid, going to be quite shallow, not to
              mention the growth that is finally realized in the other hobbits upon their
              return to the Shire.

              But, as always, you put it quite well, David.

              --
              Matthew Winslow mwinslow@... http://x-real.firinn.org/
              "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds;
              and the pessimist fears this is true."
              --James Branch Cabell
              Currently reading: J.R.R. Tolkien: Author of the Century by Tom Shippey
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