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A question

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  • Stolzi@aol.com
    How tall were Orcs? In the book, Gimli can hew their heads off, and does so =after= sitting out a fight with the hillmen because they seemed over large for
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 28, 2002
      How tall were Orcs?

      In the book, Gimli can hew their heads off, and does so =after= sitting out a
      fight with the hillmen because "they seemed over large for me."

      This suggests they were short, as does the fact that two orcs "tripped" Eomer
      in order to fight him, but doesn't Jackson depict them at full human size?

      [I'm not rereading the whole book - yet - but I am going over the battles in
      Rohan section. Further comments on the movie later]

      Diamond Proudbrook
    • pa2rick <pwynne@gvtel.com>
      ... My impression is that Tolkien visualized Orcs in general as fairly small, probably no taller than Dwarves. There are several passages that suggest that a
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 28, 2002
        --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Stolzi@a... wrote:

        > How tall were Orcs?
        >
        > In the book, Gimli can hew their heads off, and does so =after=
        > sitting out a fight with the hillmen because "they seemed over
        > large for me."
        >
        > This suggests they were short, as does the fact that two orcs
        > "tripped" Eomer in order to fight him, but doesn't Jackson
        > depict them at full human size?

        My impression is that Tolkien visualized Orcs in general as
        fairly small, probably no taller than Dwarves. There are several
        passages that suggest that a _large_ Orc was still shorter than
        a Man -- for example, in the account of the battle in the Chamber
        of Mazarbul, Tolkien describes "a huge orc-chieftain, almost
        man-high". Orcs could also ride wolves, which must mean that
        Orcs were relatively small (even supposing that the wolves
        ridden were unusually large).

        -- Pat
      • JP Massar
        ... Jackson depicts the Uruk-Hai as full human size. But there are other Orcs who serve Saruman -- What orders from Mordor, my Lord? What does the Eye
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 28, 2002
          At 11:00 AM 12/28/02 -0500, you wrote:
          >How tall were Orcs?
          >
          >In the book, Gimli can hew their heads off, and does so =after= sitting out a
          >fight with the hillmen because "they seemed over large for me."
          >
          >This suggests they were short, as does the fact that two orcs "tripped" Eomer
          >in order to fight him, but doesn't Jackson depict them at full human size?

          Jackson depicts the Uruk-Hai as full human size.

          But there are other Orcs who serve Saruman -- 'What orders from Mordor,
          my Lord? What does the Eye command?' who are significantly smaller.

          Also, at least some of the Moria Orcs, especially those who crawl down
          the pillars, are far from human size.
        • Paul F. Labaki
          ... of character to accept. Jackson s film isn t believable, Tolkien s book is. Maybe there is no way to translate that to film. JRRT makes us want to
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 31, 2002
            > From: JP Massar <massar@...>
            > Reply-To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 19:45:31 -0800
            > To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [mythsoc] A question
            >
            > At 11:00 AM 12/28/02 -0500, you wrote:
            >>
            > But there are other Orcs who serve Saruman -- 'What orders from Mordor,
            > my Lord? What does the Eye command?' who are significantly smaller.
            >
            >Saruman being so addressed by one of his orcs? Just one of many things too out
            of character to accept. Jackson's film isn't believable, Tolkien's book is.
            Maybe there is no way to translate that to film. JRRT makes us want to
            believe in his history. That is his genius.
          • JP Massar
            ... It never occurred to me that there was any problem here. What specifically do you consider out of character? The scene seemed quite plausible to me.
            Message 5 of 6 , Dec 31, 2002
              At 06:39 PM 12/31/02 -0500, you wrote:
              >
              > >>
              > > But there are other Orcs who serve Saruman -- 'What orders from Mordor,
              > > my Lord? What does the Eye command?' who are significantly smaller.
              > >
              > >Saruman being so addressed by one of his orcs? Just one of many things
              > too out
              >of character to accept.


              It never occurred to me that there was any problem here.
              What specifically do you consider out of character?

              The scene seemed quite plausible to me.
            • Ernest Tomlinson
              ... The only Orc well characterized in _The Lord of the Rings_ who serves Saruman is Ugluk, and he _hates_ Lugburz and the Orcs who serve Mordor. The Orcs in
              Message 6 of 6 , Dec 31, 2002
                On 12/31/02 4:03 PM, "JP Massar" <massar@...> wrote:

                > At 06:39 PM 12/31/02 -0500, you wrote:
                >>
                >>>>
                >>> But there are other Orcs who serve Saruman -- 'What orders from Mordor,
                >>> my Lord? What does the Eye command?' who are significantly smaller.
                >>>
                >>> Saruman being so addressed by one of his orcs? Just one of many things
                >> too out
                >> of character to accept.
                >
                >
                > It never occurred to me that there was any problem here.
                > What specifically do you consider out of character?

                The only Orc well characterized in _The Lord of the Rings_ who serves
                Saruman is Ugluk, and he _hates_ "Lugburz" and the Orcs who serve Mordor.
                The Orcs in general are not fleshed out much as characters, but we _do_ know
                that they don't respect authority much, especially external authority. No
                Orc of Saruman would be so servile as to ask what Mordor commands.

                Ernest.
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