Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: "Great Literature"

Expand Messages
  • Old.Ghost@juno.com
    ... I ve heard it described as the Protestant Work Ethic of Literature - if you like it, then it can t be real literature. Me? I read for fun, which I
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 23, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      > From: ERATRIANO@...
      > But it is so true of literature also... Why did so much of what
      > I read in high school have to have lots of swear words and
      > descriptive death scenes?
      > Does that make Great Literature?

      I've heard it described as the "Protestant Work Ethic of Literature" - if
      you like it, then it can't be real literature.

      Me? I read for fun, which I suspect will never make me a great critic or
      teacher of literature, since I find it very hard to step back from a
      Secondary World and sit on the outside examining elements of stories and
      themes and all that. I can do it, but only *after* I've first read a
      story for the enjoyment of it, and then only with difficulty. My
      professor this semester has said that he did his doctoral thesis on F&SF
      (including LotR ... I've *got* to find a copy of that thesis), and then
      was unable to read F&SF for fun for over a decade ... and he still has
      trouble doing it.

      I think maybe the swear words and descriptive death scenes are elements
      and themes that appeal to some critics and teachers, to the extent that
      they no longer really see stories primarily as stories.

      I'm not sure any of that made real sense to anyone, so I'll shut up now,
      go back to lurking, and let the more talented members of the list do the
      talking.

      Oh, one more thing. I finally finished my essay examining "The Wizard of
      Oz" using Tolkien's essay "On Fairy-stories". I don't think it's really
      of high enough quality to post here (and it's over 4 pages single-spaced)
      but if anyone wants to see it, please e-mail me and I'll send it along.
      I'd appreciate the feedback.

      ~ Old Ghost (Jas.)

      ________________________________________________________________
      Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
      Only $9.95 per month!
      Visit www.juno.com
    • LARRY SWAIN
      ... I understand this sentiment. For me, it was the professional Lewis and Tolkien who led me to their fiction. But they took it a step further, it was
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 23, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        --- Old.Ghost@... wrote:
        > I've heard it described as the "Protestant Work
        > Ethic of Literature" - if
        > you like it, then it can't be real literature.
        >
        > Me? I read for fun, which I suspect will never make
        > me a great critic or
        > teacher of literature, since I find it very hard to
        > step back from a
        > Secondary World and sit on the outside examining
        > elements of stories and
        > themes and all that. I can do it, but only *after*
        > I've first read a
        > story for the enjoyment of it, and then only with
        > difficulty. My
        > professor this semester has said that he did his
        > doctoral thesis on F&SF
        > (including LotR ... I've *got* to find a copy of
        > that thesis), and then
        > was unable to read F&SF for fun for over a decade
        > ... and he still has
        > trouble doing it.
        >

        I understand this sentiment. For me, it was the
        professional Lewis and Tolkien who led me to their
        fiction. But they took it a step further, it was
        Tolkien's mimesis of Classical and Medieval literature
        and Lewis' enthusiasm in so much of his scholarship
        that led me to become a professional scholar of
        medieval literature. And while I can sit back and
        appreciate and enjoy the literature on one level,
        being able to also look at the details, the themes,
        the language, the genre, the form etc, adds new levels
        of appreciation for me. BUT I'm a medieval nerd,
        so......

        Larry Swain
      • ERATRIANO@aol.com
        In a message dated 11/23/2002 12:47:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... Now THAT is funny. Lizzie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 23, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          In a message dated 11/23/2002 12:47:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,
          Old.Ghost@... writes:

          > I've heard it described as the "Protestant Work Ethic of Literature" - if
          > you like it, then it can't be real literature.
          >

          Now THAT is funny.

          Lizzie


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Lisa Deutsch Harrigan
          You could submit your paper to Mythlore. I m sure Ted could use it. Mythically yours, Lisa
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 24, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            You could submit your paper to Mythlore. I'm sure Ted could use it.

            Mythically yours,
            Lisa

            Old.Ghost@... wrote:

            >
            >Oh, one more thing. I finally finished my essay examining "The Wizard of
            >Oz" using Tolkien's essay "On Fairy-stories". I don't think it's really
            >of high enough quality to post here (and it's over 4 pages single-spaced)
            >but if anyone wants to see it, please e-mail me and I'll send it along.
            >I'd appreciate the feedback.
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • ERATRIANO@aol.com
            In a message dated 11/23/2002 8:01:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... That is so cool. Where are you a prof, Larry? Gosh I d love to browse your personal
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 24, 2002
            • 0 Attachment
              In a message dated 11/23/2002 8:01:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
              theswain@... writes:

              > I understand this sentiment. For me, it was the professional Lewis and
              > Tolkien who led me to their fiction. But they took it a step further, it
              > was Tolkien's mimesis of Classical and Medieval literature and Lewis'
              > enthusiasm in so much of his scholarship that led me to become a
              > professional scholar of
              > medieval literature. And while I can sit back and appreciate and enjoy the
              > literature on one level, being able to also look at the details, the
              > themes, the language, the genre, the form etc, adds new levels of
              > appreciation for me. BUT I'm a medieval nerd, so......

              That is so cool. Where are you a prof, Larry? Gosh I'd love to browse
              your personal library.

              Lizzie


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • LARRY SWAIN
              ... I m still becoming a prof, but I do teach at University of Illinois at Chicago. I do Anglo-Saxon lit and Anglo-Latin stuff primarily, but I m teaching
              Message 6 of 8 , Nov 25, 2002
              • 0 Attachment
                --- ERATRIANO@... wrote:
                > In a message dated 11/23/2002 8:01:43 PM Eastern
                > Standard Time,
                > theswain@... writes:
                >

                > That is so cool. Where are you a prof, Larry?
                > Gosh I'd love to browse
                > your personal library.

                I'm still becoming a prof, but I do teach at
                University of Illinois at Chicago. I do Anglo-Saxon
                lit and Anglo-Latin stuff primarily, but I'm teaching
                Middle English stuff too, and trying to find a way to
                work Tolkien into things, especially with the second
                movie coming out next month.

                Larry Swain
              • ERATRIANO@aol.com
                In a message dated 11/25/2002 11:27:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... What is Anglo-Latin? Can you give me a few titles and a period? So close to Wheaton... I
                Message 7 of 8 , Nov 25, 2002
                • 0 Attachment
                  In a message dated 11/25/2002 11:27:51 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                  theswain@... writes:

                  > I'm still becoming a prof, but I do teach at University of Illinois at
                  > Chicago. I do Anglo-Saxon lit and Anglo-Latin stuff primarily, but I'm
                  > teaching
                  > Middle English stuff too, and trying to find a way to work Tolkien into
                  > things, especially with the second movie coming out next month.
                  >
                  > Larry Swain

                  What is Anglo-Latin? Can you give me a few titles and a period?

                  So close to Wheaton... I guess you get to attend things there now and then?
                  Lucky you.

                  I got scolded for constantly trying to work Lewis and probably Williams into
                  my papers for a Milton class... but remained warmly in awe of the prof, he
                  was good & tough. Need more like him, the late Hugh Maclean. Got to take a
                  few classes with a Rossell Hope Robbins back then, too, but he went easy on
                  us, he was retiring. I think he was a medieval notable though. The kind of
                  character one can aspire to be. Visited my alma mater a while back, didn't
                  recognize Any of the names on the board in the Humanities bldg. I was sad.

                  Lizzie


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • LARRY SWAIN
                  ... Anglo-Latin is Latin texts written by Anglo-Saxon authors. Latin written in England or Ireland from the sixth century to the tenth displays certain
                  Message 8 of 8 , Nov 27, 2002
                  • 0 Attachment
                    >
                    > What is Anglo-Latin? Can you give me a few titles
                    > and a period?

                    Anglo-Latin is Latin texts written by Anglo-Saxon
                    authors. Latin written in England or Ireland from the
                    sixth century to the tenth displays certain
                    characteristics that set it apart from Latin on the
                    Continent--the more so in the early part of the period
                    than the late. Aldhelm is a prime example, with his
                    "made up" high falootin' vocabulary and style.

                    > So close to Wheaton... I guess you get to attend
                    > things there now and then?
                    > Lucky you.

                    Actually no. Close, but not that close. I don't have
                    a car in the city, so that means the train, and if I
                    planned it, it could be done, but anything in the
                    evening is hard to get out to Wheaton and then back
                    downtown, and then catch yet another train to the part
                    of the city I live in. It makes for a LONG day. But
                    I'm looking forward to Christmas break.

                    > I got scolded for constantly trying to work Lewis
                    > and probably Williams into
                    > my papers for a Milton class... but remained warmly
                    > in awe of the prof, he
                    > was good & tough. Need more like him, the late Hugh
                    > Maclean. Got to take a
                    > few classes with a Rossell Hope Robbins back then,
                    > too, but he went easy on
                    > us, he was retiring. I think he was a medieval
                    > notable though. The kind of
                    > character one can aspire to be. Visited my alma
                    > mater a while back, didn't
                    > recognize Any of the names on the board in the
                    > Humanities bldg. I was sad.
                    >
                    > Lizzie

                    I know that feeling. Even the places I've recently
                    left are experiencing changes, so that when I go back
                    to do research or other things, the changes have
                    already occurred and its like I'm a stranger there
                    rather than in the thick of things. Always a bit
                    melancholy.

                    Larry
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.