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Re: [mythsoc] Digest Number 1041

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  • stephen@stephen.com
    SusanPal@aol.com writes:
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 17, 2002
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      SusanPal@... writes:
      << although I had real trouble with the added scenes in which
      Aragorn's reluctant about his kingship (which I didn't think he ever was in
      the book, if only because Elrond had made it the condition of his marrying
      Arwen!). >>

      I had the same thought. As long as they're making Aragorn reluctant and
      Elrond dour, why not use the condition on marrige? Perhaps it will come up
      in the second movie in the context of Arwen departing for Helm's Deep with
      the sword... ?

      - Stephen
    • tghsaw
      ... From: stephen@stephen.com To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 11:26 PM Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Digest Number 1041 SusanPal@aol.com
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 19, 2002
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        ----- Original Message -----
        From: stephen@...
        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 11:26 PM
        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Digest Number 1041


        SusanPal@... writes:
        << although I had real trouble with the added scenes in which
        Aragorn's reluctant about his kingship (which I didn't think he ever was in
        the book, if only because Elrond had made it the condition of his marrying
        Arwen!). >>



        I'd agree that it's not in the book, where I think Aragorn sometimes doubts his own abilities, and certainly waits until he considers the time to be right, but is never reluctant to claim the kingship. On my third viewing of the new scene, it struck me that his "not wanting that power" could be turned into a character strength in the later movies--that he takes up that power for the good of all, even when he so obviously doesn't personally want it. IMHO, that idea is already behind what both Elrond and Galadriel say to him in their added scenes. Definitely not in the book, but possibly an interesting development if it's done right. (A question might be whether this has been made clear enough in the theatrical release for those who don't see the extended version.)

        And regarding the kingship being a condition for marrying Arwen--in the movie (both versions) it seems to me that Arwen wants to marry Aragorn a lot more than he wants to marry her! I don't know if it's come across that way to others. Of course, if the movies *are* going to show Aragorn taking up his kingly power for the good of all, having it be a condition for marriage would weaken that pretty strongly, IMHO (oxymoron not intentional).

        --Trudy



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      • SusanPal@aol.com
        In a message dated 11/19/2002 4:57:49 AM Pacific Standard Time, ... Actually, I think it has; it s set up by the conversation between Gandalf and Elrond in
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 19, 2002
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          In a message dated 11/19/2002 4:57:49 AM Pacific Standard Time,
          tgshaw@... writes:


          > (A question might be whether this has been made clear enough in the
          > theatrical release for those who don't see the extended version.)
          >

          Actually, I think it has; it's set up by the conversation between Gandalf and
          Elrond in Rivendell, when Gandalf says of men, "There is one who could unite
          them," and Elrond answers, "He turned from that path long ago. He has chosen
          exile." (This conversation is, I believe, the source of the significant look
          Gandalf and Elrond give each other when Aragorn is the first to volunteer for
          the Fellowship at the Council.)

          Susan


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        • David S. Bratman
          ... An interesting character, perhaps, but not a particularly original one, and more importantly not Aragorn. He is not afraid of the power, because he is the
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 19, 2002
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            At 04:57 AM 11/19/2002 , Trudy wrote:

            > I'd agree that it's not in the book, where I think Aragorn sometimes
            >doubts his own abilities, and certainly waits until he considers the time to
            >be right, but is never reluctant to claim the kingship. On my third viewing
            >of the new scene, it struck me that his "not wanting that power" could be
            >turned into a character strength in the later movies--that he takes up that
            >power for the good of all, even when he so obviously doesn't personally want
            >it.

            An interesting character, perhaps, but not a particularly original one, and
            more importantly not Aragorn. He is not afraid of the power, because he is
            the rightful King. What Aragorn doubts in the book is his independent
            judgment on the fly, and his ability to pass the exacting test required to
            receive the kingship, not his ability to wield the power.

            > And regarding the kingship being a condition for marrying Arwen--in the
            >movie (both versions) it seems to me that Arwen wants to marry Aragorn a lot
            >more than he wants to marry her! I don't know if it's come across that way
            >to others.

            Yes, it did rather seem that way. This is the anticipation flaw: they've
            taken Arwen's yearning for Aragorn at the time of his death, and applied it
            inappropriately to their courtship. (Not to say she didn't want him, but
            she wouldn't express it in that style.)

            - David Bratman
          • ERATRIANO@aol.com
            In a message dated 11/19/2002 3:46:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... Where does this occur? The yearning thing, I mean. Where can I find it? thanks, Lizzie
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 19, 2002
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              In a message dated 11/19/2002 3:46:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
              dbratman@... writes:

              > Yes, it did rather seem that way. This is the anticipation flaw: they've
              > taken Arwen's yearning for Aragorn at the time of his death, and applied it
              > inappropriately to their courtship.

              Where does this occur? The yearning thing, I mean. Where can I find it?

              thanks,

              Lizzie


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • SusanPal@aol.com
              In a message dated 11/19/2002 3:58:06 PM Pacific Standard Time, ... The bridge scene in Rivendell. Susan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 8 , Nov 19, 2002
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                In a message dated 11/19/2002 3:58:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                ERATRIANO@... writes:


                > Where does this occur? The yearning thing, I mean. Where can I find it?
                >

                The bridge scene in Rivendell.

                Susan


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • David S. Bratman
                The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen, in Appendix A of LOTR. - David Bratman
                Message 7 of 8 , Nov 19, 2002
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                  The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen, in Appendix A of LOTR.

                  - David Bratman


                  At 03:56 PM 11/19/2002 , Lizzie wrote:
                  >dbratman@... writes:
                  >
                  >> Yes, it did rather seem that way. This is the anticipation flaw: they've
                  >> taken Arwen's yearning for Aragorn at the time of his death, and applied it
                  >> inappropriately to their courtship.
                  >
                  >Where does this occur? The yearning thing, I mean. Where can I find it?
                • SusanPal@aol.com
                  Ooops, sorry! I thought she meant the movie, not the book! Susan
                  Message 8 of 8 , Nov 19, 2002
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                    Ooops, sorry! I thought she meant the movie, not the book!

                    Susan
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