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[mythsoc] White Query plus examples

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  • dianejoy@earthlink.net
    ... But if there s ever been a reader for whom style was nearly inseparable from content, it was Tolkien, and I can imagine that some of White s stylistic
    Message 1 of 17 , Oct 3, 2002
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      Original Message:
      -----------------
      But if there's ever been a reader for whom style was nearly inseparable
      from content, it was Tolkien, and I can imagine that some of White's
      stylistic quirks might have been sufficiently distracting to severely
      compromise his enjoyment of the narrative. That happens to me -- sometimes
      I have such a style allergy to a story that I can't force myself to read
      it, even when I can tell that the plot's original and interesting -- and
      I'm probably far *less* sensitive to such things than Tolkien was.

      ---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

      I'd love some examples on when this happens to you. I find that if the
      style bothers me, or somebody comes up with a clunker of a name, I change
      it. It does require energy, even when it doesn't happen often (as in
      Audley's *Heresy* recently); some might not want to expend that much
      effort. In the case of Terry Brooks' first *Shana-na* book, I couldn't
      continue, because the wizard's name was so tied to the real world that I'd
      burst out laughing every time I read it. That killed Brooks for me. I
      also find that I have style "moods." I just put the book aside until I'm
      in the mood for that particular style.

      White is so different from Tolkien that I put them at opposite ends of the
      scale; for me, White fits nicely in Terry Pratchett's territory. Even
      though he is dealing with some important issues. ---djb
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    • SusanPal@aol.com
      In a message dated 10/3/2002 11:04:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ... I actually have a severe style allergy to 18th-century prose. I *love* most 19th-century
      Message 2 of 17 , Oct 3, 2002
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        In a message dated 10/3/2002 11:04:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
        dianejoy@... writes:


        > I'd love some examples on when this happens to you. I find that if the
        > style bothers me, or somebody comes up with a clunker of a name, I change
        > it. It does require energy,

        I actually have a severe style allergy to 18th-century prose. I *love* most
        19th-century prose -- which was the area of my dissertation work -- but the
        eighteenth century just makes me break out in hives. My 18th-century novel
        course in college was extremely painful as a result: I read the stuff
        because I had to -- even TRISTRAM SHANDY, my personal vote for "world's most
        annoying book" -- but I wouldn't have otherwise. PAMELA may be a terrific
        book, but not for me.

        I dislike Henry James. I've had to read PORTRAIT OF A LADY several times,
        and had to teach it as a TA in grad school: I recognize that he does what he
        does beautifully, but his writing puts me utterly to sleep.

        Although I love Connie Willis' early stories, I stopped reading her novels
        after DOOMSDAY BOOK; that book, I felt, was massively over-rated and suffered
        from the narrative version of the square-cube law, collapsing under its own
        weight because it was all details without enough exoskeleton. (The
        characterization, or lack thereof, also drove me nuts; Kivrin gets zapped
        back to the fourteenth century and *never* thinks about or misses friends or
        family in her own Oxford? The only people there she thinks about are her
        thesis advisor and the school doctor? She doesn't have roommates or lovers
        or *parents*? I'm not buying it. I took to calling that book "The woman
        without a past meets the past without a future.") Friends who've read
        Willis' more recent work tell me that it's somewhat repetitious, although
        obviously that's second-hand, and I realize I may be missing some great
        stuff.

        Greer Gilman. (I should mention here that I know and like Greer.) I worked
        my way through MOONWISE with puzzlement but a great deal of wonder; I found
        her story in last year's YEAR'S BEST FANTASY AND HORROR well-nigh unreadable,
        though. (Often very beautiful, but still well-nigh unreadable.) But that's
        a small sample, and I'm hoping she'll write a lot more!

        I'm currently reading Mieville's PERDIDO STREET STATION. (Yes, I'm reading
        his work even though he's gone on public record as loathing Tolkien. Call me
        eclectic!) While his invention's brilliant and I'm very interested in the
        story, I also keep getting snagged on small stylistic annoyances: too many
        italics and quotation marks, use of "disorientate" instead of "disorient,"
        some verb tenses that are slightly off, etc. It's not enough to make me put
        the book down -- and since this one's light-years better than KING RAT, his
        first, I plan to read his third, THE SCAR, as well -- but it is a
        distraction.

        Switching genres, I enjoyed some of James Ellroy's early novels (notably
        BROWN'S REQUIEM and THE BLACK DAHLIA), but a mere glance at his latest work
        has convinced me not to attempt it. It seems like a parody of hard-boiled
        style, all three-word sentence fragments. I may try his stuff again when he
        rediscovers the joy of variable prose rhythm and compound sentences.

        To end on a more positive note, here are people whose style I *love:* Ellen
        Kushner in SWORDSPOINT, Raphael Carter in THE FORTUNATE FALL, Geoff Ryman in
        THE UNCONQUERED COUNTRY and THE CHILD GARDEN and WAS, Philip Pullman in his
        first two DARK MATERIALS books (still haven't read the third!), anything of E.
        B. White's (I often give my college writing students paragraphs from STUART
        LITTLE or CHARLOTTE'S WEB as examples of gorgeous prose), and, of course,
        huge swathes of Tolkien and Lewis. I haven't read Williams yet. So shoot
        me.

        Aren't you glad you asked? <eg>

        Susan


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      • David S. Bratman
        ... Amusing in very small doses, I thought. Never tried reading the whole thing. ... I failed attempts to read _The Turn of the Screw_. Didn t like Britten s
        Message 3 of 17 , Oct 3, 2002
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          At 10:08 PM 10/3/2002 , Susan wrote:

          >My 18th-century novel
          >course in college was extremely painful as a result: I read the stuff
          >because I had to -- even TRISTRAM SHANDY, my personal vote for "world's most
          >annoying book"

          Amusing in very small doses, I thought. Never tried reading the whole thing.

          >I dislike Henry James. I've had to read PORTRAIT OF A LADY several times,
          >and had to teach it as a TA in grad school: I recognize that he does what he
          >does beautifully, but his writing puts me utterly to sleep.

          I failed attempts to read _The Turn of the Screw_. Didn't like Britten's
          opera of it either, and normally I like Britten.

          >I'm currently reading Mieville's PERDIDO STREET STATION. (Yes, I'm reading
          >his work even though he's gone on public record as loathing Tolkien. Call me
          >eclectic!) While his invention's brilliant and I'm very interested in the
          >story, I also keep getting snagged on small stylistic annoyances: too many
          >italics and quotation marks, use of "disorientate" instead of "disorient,"
          >some verb tenses that are slightly off, etc.

          He made Thog's Masterclass (Detached Viewpoint Dept.) in this month's
          Ansible, for this: "Isaac threw up his face and swung it around him,
          desperately searching for light."

          >To end on a more positive note, here are people whose style I *love:* Ellen
          >Kushner in SWORDSPOINT,

          You know, I trust, that the lo-o-ong-awaited sequel, _The Fall of the
          Kings_, is due out at the end of this month? Ellen and Delia Sherman, the
          co-author, read chunks of it at Worldcon. Sounds just like _Swordspoint_.

          >Geoff Ryman in
          >THE UNCONQUERED COUNTRY and THE CHILD GARDEN and WAS, Philip Pullman in his
          >first two DARK MATERIALS books (still haven't read the third!), anything of E.
          >B. White's (I often give my college writing students paragraphs from STUART
          >LITTLE or CHARLOTTE'S WEB as examples of gorgeous prose),

          Truly versatile is one who likes both the heavy, difficult Ryman and the
          clear, lucid White (and the lush, romantic Kushner), and in the same
          sentence, yet.

          >I haven't read Williams yet. So shoot me.

          So, go read some. Start with _War in Heaven_, then _The Place of the
          Lion_, among the novels. That's my recommendation: you may get different
          ones from others.

          - David Bratman
        • Margaret Dean
          ... Ohhh my, now I =know= I ve fallen out of touch, since I hadn t heard a peep about this. Well, now I know where that Borders card I got for my birthday is
          Message 4 of 17 , Oct 4, 2002
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            "David S. Bratman" wrote:

            > >To end on a more positive note, here are people whose style I *love:*
            > >Ellen Kushner in SWORDSPOINT,
            >
            > You know, I trust, that the lo-o-ong-awaited sequel, _The Fall of the
            > Kings_, is due out at the end of this month? Ellen and Delia Sherman, the
            > co-author, read chunks of it at Worldcon. Sounds just like _Swordspoint_.

            Ohhh my, now I =know= I've fallen out of touch, since I hadn't
            heard a peep about this. Well, now I know where that Borders
            card I got for my birthday is going!! *pant pant*

            However, judging from the title and knowing what I do about the
            world of =Swordspoint,= I suspect it's actually a prequel.


            > >I haven't read Williams yet. So shoot me.
            >
            > So, go read some. Start with _War in Heaven_, then _The Place of the
            > Lion_, among the novels. That's my recommendation: you may get different
            > ones from others.

            I'd recommend =Descent Into Hell= myself.


            --Margaret Dean
            <margdean@...>
          • Joan Marie Verba
            ... Susan, if you find that Williams isn t your cup of tea (which is pretty much my case), at least try The Masques of Amen House by Charles Williams from the
            Message 5 of 17 , Oct 4, 2002
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              Susan wrote:

              > >I haven't read Williams yet. So shoot me.

              David responded:

              > So, go read some. Start with _War in Heaven_, then _The Place of the
              > Lion_, among the novels. That's my recommendation: you may get different
              > ones from others.

              Susan, if you find that Williams isn't your cup of tea (which is pretty
              much my case), at least try The Masques of Amen House by Charles
              Williams from the Mythopoeic Press (you can purchase it at our website).
              It's the only Williams work I have ever truly enjoyed, and if you're a
              writer, you'll enjoy it even more.

              Or, read That Hideous Strength. It's a novel by C. S. Lewis, but it has
              the Williams style throughout. (Some critics have jokingly referred to
              it as "a Charles Williams novel by C. S. Lewis.")

              Joan
              ******************************************
              Joan Marie Verba
              verba001@...
              http://www.sff.net/people/Joan.Marie.Verba
            • David S. Bratman
              ... Good guess, but nope. (There s more to the fall of the kings than you might expect.) Regarding its relationship to _Swordspoint_, one of the characters
              Message 6 of 17 , Oct 4, 2002
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                At 05:41 AM 10/4/2002 , Margaret wrote:

                >> >To end on a more positive note, here are people whose style I *love:*
                >> >Ellen Kushner in SWORDSPOINT,
                >>
                >> You know, I trust, that the lo-o-ong-awaited sequel, _The Fall of the
                >> Kings_, is due out at the end of this month? Ellen and Delia Sherman, the
                >> co-author, read chunks of it at Worldcon. Sounds just like _Swordspoint_.
                >
                >Ohhh my, now I =know= I've fallen out of touch, since I hadn't
                >heard a peep about this. Well, now I know where that Borders
                >card I got for my birthday is going!! *pant pant*
                >
                >However, judging from the title and knowing what I do about the
                >world of =Swordspoint,= I suspect it's actually a prequel.

                Good guess, but nope. (There's more to the fall of the kings than you
                might expect.) Regarding its relationship to _Swordspoint_, one of the
                characters is actually ... no, I'm not going to tell you. You'll have to
                wait. <g> But I guessed as soon as I met him.


                >> >I haven't read Williams yet. So shoot me.
                >>
                >> So, go read some. Start with _War in Heaven_, then _The Place of the
                >> Lion_, among the novels. That's my recommendation: you may get different
                >> ones from others.
                >
                >I'd recommend =Descent Into Hell= myself.

                Uh, that was my first crack at a Williams novel. Big mistake. (Only _All
                Hallows' Eve_ would have been bigger.) But since Susan likes 19th century
                prose (except for Henry James, but what kind of lover of 19th century prose
                dislikes Henry James?) and Geoff Ryman, perhaps it wouldn't be such a bad
                start after all.

                - David Bratman
              • David S. Bratman
                ... (Editor of this book blushingly affirms Joan s recommendation) ... And then there s The Notion Club Papers, which is a Charles Williams novel by J.R.R.
                Message 7 of 17 , Oct 4, 2002
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                  At 06:39 AM 10/4/2002 , Joan wrote:

                  >Susan, if you find that Williams isn't your cup of tea (which is pretty
                  >much my case), at least try The Masques of Amen House by Charles
                  >Williams from the Mythopoeic Press (you can purchase it at our website).
                  >It's the only Williams work I have ever truly enjoyed, and if you're a
                  >writer, you'll enjoy it even more.

                  (Editor of this book blushingly affirms Joan's recommendation)

                  >Or, read That Hideous Strength. It's a novel by C. S. Lewis, but it has
                  >the Williams style throughout. (Some critics have jokingly referred to
                  >it as "a Charles Williams novel by C. S. Lewis.")

                  And then there's "The Notion Club Papers," which is a Charles Williams
                  novel by J.R.R. Tolkien. Yes, indeed. What there is of it is in the
                  posthumous volume _Morgoth's Ring_.

                  - David Bratman
                • David S. Bratman
                  As long as Ellen Kushner has come up, I might as well announce now that her radio program, _Sound and Spirit_, which describes itself as a weekly series of
                  Message 8 of 17 , Oct 4, 2002
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                    As long as Ellen Kushner has come up, I might as well announce now that her
                    radio program, _Sound and Spirit_, which describes itself as "a weekly
                    series of hour-long radio programs exploring the human spirit through music
                    and ideas," will have a program on _The Lord of the Rings_ the week of
                    November 10th. This is one that Ellen has been planning to do since she
                    started the series years ago, and it's finally coming to fruition. She
                    talked about this also at Worldcon.

                    There's not much about this program up online yet, but what there is is at
                    <http://www.wgbh.org/wgbh/pages/pri/spirit/season7/index.html#745>

                    A list of radio stations carrying the program is at
                    <http://www.wgbh.org/wgbh/pages/pri/spirit/where.html>

                    - David Bratman
                  • Margaret Dean
                    ... Whereas I couldn t finish =War In Heaven.= ... Actually what we ve just exemplified is that different Williams novels appeal to different tastes,
                    Message 9 of 17 , Oct 4, 2002
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                      "David S. Bratman" wrote:

                      > >> >I haven't read Williams yet. So shoot me.
                      > >>
                      > >> So, go read some. Start with _War in Heaven_, then _The Place of the
                      > >> Lion_, among the novels. That's my recommendation: you may get
                      > >> different ones from others.
                      > >
                      > >I'd recommend =Descent Into Hell= myself.
                      >
                      > Uh, that was my first crack at a Williams novel. Big mistake. (Only
                      > _All Hallows' Eve_ would have been bigger.)

                      Whereas I couldn't finish =War In Heaven.=

                      > But since Susan likes
                      > 19th century prose (except for Henry James, but what kind of lover of
                      > 19th century prose dislikes Henry James?) and Geoff Ryman, perhaps it
                      > wouldn't be such a bad start after all.

                      <grin> Actually what we've just exemplified is that different
                      Williams novels appeal to different tastes, and that if a
                      particular one doesn't appeal to Susan, she should not get
                      discouraged, but try another one.


                      --Margaret Dean
                      <margdean@...>
                    • SusanPal@aol.com
                      In a message dated 10/3/2002 10:40:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ... Yes, exactly. This is the kind of thing I m *constantly* trying to get my fiction writing
                      Message 10 of 17 , Oct 4, 2002
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                        In a message dated 10/3/2002 10:40:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
                        dbratman@... writes:


                        > He made Thog's Masterclass (Detached Viewpoint Dept.) in this month's
                        > Ansible, for this: "Isaac threw up his face and swung it around him,
                        > desperately searching for light."
                        >

                        Yes, exactly. This is the kind of thing I'm *constantly* trying to get my
                        fiction writing students NOT to do -- they think I'm the crankiest grammar
                        Nazi on the planet, because most of them couldn't even tell you what's wrong
                        with that sentence. (Not being stylistically sensitive means that you have a
                        much greater capacity to enjoy bad prose, unfortunately.) On one level, it
                        really bothers me that a novel containing even one sentence like that has won
                        awards . . . but on the other hand, I truly am enjoying the book, even when
                        it makes me wince. I just hope that Mieville's craft improves with time, as
                        it's already done, and that he doesn't fall into the
                        I-don't-have-to-work-at-this-because-I'm-famous syndrome.

                        Yes, I knew that the Kushner/Sherman book was forthcoming. (And I can
                        forgive them for the wait, given how long it took me to write *my* second
                        novel -- which is supposedly scheduled for May, although editorial delays
                        have now made that unlikely.) And of course, in the interim Kushner
                        published THOMAS THE RHYMER, which -- although it won the World Fantasy Award
                        -- I didn't think nearly as good a book as SWORDSPOINT. My husband has been
                        referring to the next one as SWORDSPOINTIER.

                        Thank you all for the Williams recommendations! I'll try to make that my
                        next priority after Mieville . . . .

                        Susan


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • SusanPal@aol.com
                        In a message dated 10/4/2002 8:57:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ... An eccentric one, obviously! (And one who had PORTRAIT OF A LADY shoved down her throat in
                        Message 11 of 17 , Oct 4, 2002
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                          In a message dated 10/4/2002 8:57:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
                          dbratman@... writes:


                          > except for Henry James, but what kind of lover of 19th century prose
                          > dislikes Henry James?)

                          An eccentric one, obviously! (And one who had PORTRAIT OF A LADY shoved down
                          her throat in too many college courses.)

                          SP


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • SusanPal@aol.com
                          In a message dated 10/4/2002 8:58:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ... Ah! Which I have on my bookshelf at this very moment! How terribly convenient! Susan
                          Message 12 of 17 , Oct 4, 2002
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                            In a message dated 10/4/2002 8:58:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
                            dbratman@... writes:


                            > And then there's "The Notion Club Papers," which is a Charles Williams
                            > novel by J.R.R. Tolkien. Yes, indeed. What there is of it is in the
                            > posthumous volume _Morgoth's Ring_.
                            >

                            Ah! Which I have on my bookshelf at this very moment! How terribly
                            convenient!

                            Susan


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • SusanPal@aol.com
                            In a message dated 10/4/2002 8:58:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ... Are you sure? I just checked _Morgoth s Ring_, and see no sign of The Norton Club Papers.
                            Message 13 of 17 , Oct 4, 2002
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                              In a message dated 10/4/2002 8:58:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
                              dbratman@... writes:


                              > And then there's "The Notion Club Papers," which is a Charles Williams
                              > novel by J.R.R. Tolkien. Yes, indeed. What there is of it is in the
                              > posthumous volume _Morgoth's Ring_.
                              >

                              Are you sure? I just checked _Morgoth's Ring_, and see no sign of "The
                              Norton Club Papers." It must be in another volume!

                              Thanks,
                              Susan


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • David S. Bratman
                              Sorry; mental glitch. _Sauron Defeated_.
                              Message 14 of 17 , Oct 4, 2002
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                                Sorry; mental glitch. _Sauron Defeated_.

                                At 09:42 AM 10/4/2002 , Susan wrote:

                                >In a message dated 10/4/2002 8:58:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
                                >dbratman@... writes:
                                >
                                >> And then there's "The Notion Club Papers," which is a Charles Williams
                                >> novel by J.R.R. Tolkien. Yes, indeed. What there is of it is in the
                                >> posthumous volume _Morgoth's Ring_.
                                >>
                                >
                                >Are you sure? I just checked _Morgoth's Ring_, and see no sign of "The
                                >Norton Club Papers." It must be in another volume!
                              • David S. Bratman
                                ... Thog s Masterclass is full of examples of people s eyeballs doing strange things: Her eyes dropped suddenly to the floor, His eyes rolled down her
                                Message 15 of 17 , Oct 4, 2002
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                                  At 09:14 AM 10/4/2002 , Susan wrote:

                                  >In a message dated 10/3/2002 10:40:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
                                  >dbratman@... writes:
                                  >
                                  >> He made Thog's Masterclass (Detached Viewpoint Dept.) in this month's
                                  >> Ansible, for this: "Isaac threw up his face and swung it around him,
                                  >> desperately searching for light."
                                  >
                                  >Yes, exactly. This is the kind of thing I'm *constantly* trying to get my
                                  >fiction writing students NOT to do -- they think I'm the crankiest grammar
                                  >Nazi on the planet, because most of them couldn't even tell you what's wrong
                                  >with that sentence.

                                  Thog's Masterclass is full of examples of people's eyeballs doing strange
                                  things: "Her eyes dropped suddenly to the floor," "His eyes rolled down her
                                  body," "Her eyes looked thoughtfully inward," that sort of thing. How
                                  would you analyze this problem? I'd say it's not a grammar problem in the
                                  usual part-of-speech sense, so much as an inadvertent referent problem (a
                                  different sort of grammar problem), combined with another problem not
                                  grammatical in nature: a bad or clumsy choice of perspective and
                                  point-of-view. That last problem I see quite a lot of in fiction in other
                                  ways. But that's another topic ...

                                  >(Not being stylistically sensitive means that you have a
                                  >much greater capacity to enjoy bad prose, unfortunately.)

                                  Which is why I'm so irritated at people who say "Why can't you just enjoy
                                  it?" or "Leave your brain at the door." Yet another topic ...

                                  >On one level, it
                                  >really bothers me that a novel containing even one sentence like that has won
                                  >awards . . .

                                  Don't forget that Tolkien wrote this classic: "'Yrch!' said Legolas,
                                  falling into his own tongue."

                                  >but on the other hand, I truly am enjoying the book, even when
                                  >it makes me wince. I just hope that Mieville's craft improves with time, as
                                  >it's already done, and that he doesn't fall into the
                                  >I-don't-have-to-work-at-this-because-I'm-famous syndrome.

                                  Unfortunately, he may be well on the way there, because his Locus interview
                                  showed him an arrogant, pretentious bastard even before he had enough fame
                                  to preen himself about.

                                  >And of course, in the interim Kushner
                                  >published THOMAS THE RHYMER, which -- although it won the World Fantasy Award
                                  >-- I didn't think nearly as good a book as SWORDSPOINT.

                                  It won the Mythopoeic Fantasy Award too. But I agree on its relative merits.

                                  >My husband has been
                                  >referring to the next one as SWORDSPOINTIER.

                                  Ooh, I want to steal that.

                                  - David Bratman
                                • dianejoy@earthlink.net
                                  ... From: Margaret Dean margdean@erols.com Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 12:07:24 -0400 To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [mythsoc] White Query plus examples
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Oct 4, 2002
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                                    Original Message:
                                    -----------------
                                    From: Margaret Dean margdean@...
                                    Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 12:07:24 -0400
                                    To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [mythsoc] White Query plus examples



                                    >
                                    > Uh, that was my first crack at a Williams novel. Big mistake. (Only
                                    > _All Hallows' Eve_ would have been bigger.)

                                    Whereas I couldn't finish =War In Heaven.=

                                    *All Hallow's Eve* =was= my first crack at Williams. I definitely wasn't
                                    ready for it. I found *Place of the Lion* much more accessible and
                                    recommend it for a first dip into Williams. ---djb

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                                  • jamcconney@aol.com
                                    In a message dated 10/4/2002 8:38:26 AM Central Daylight Time, ... I m afraid such is the case. Personally I love Williams (sometimes-convoluted style and all)
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Oct 4, 2002
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                                      In a message dated 10/4/2002 8:38:26 AM Central Daylight Time,
                                      verba001@... writes:


                                      > if you find that Williams isn't your cup of tea

                                      I'm afraid such is the case. Personally I love Williams (sometimes-convoluted
                                      style and all) but I recognize that he can be _very_ difficult to read. This
                                      makes me wary about recommending him to others. I'd say give him a try and
                                      give the try some patience--he's not a writer you'll warm to in a page or
                                      two.

                                      My favorite is DESCENT INTO HELL--there;s one scene, one line of dialogue,
                                      that I swear the first time I read it I levitated six inches off the chair
                                      screaming "Oh my God--YES!" (If you've read it, you know the one I mean; if
                                      you haven't, I won't spoil it for you.)

                                      I also like THE GREATER TRUMPS and ALL HALLOWS EVE. I'm not sure but what WAR
                                      IN HEAVEN might be the most accessible to a first-time reader--there's
                                      something very pleasantly quirky about the concept of a mild, middle-aged
                                      country priest discovering that the beat up old chalice on the back shelf is
                                      really the Holy Grail....

                                      Anne


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