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RE: [mythsoc] Casting Game

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  • Croft, Janet B
    Kevin Sorbo as Boromir -- interesting choice, and you ve got some convincing reasons. I think you re right that Boromir should be the big blond muscle-bound
    Message 1 of 16 , Sep 18, 2002
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      Kevin Sorbo as Boromir -- interesting choice, and you've got some convincing
      reasons. I think you're right that Boromir should be the big blond
      muscle-bound hero -- Aragorn should in contrast be less "bulgey" and more
      the unobtrusive guy you don't suspect of having all that strength until it's
      too late -- capable of blending into the background in a pub, for example.
      (Can't see Boromir doing undercover work.) Like Achilles and Odysseus,
      maybe. And didn't Sorbo do a fairly good "evil mirror-universe Hercules" now
      and then? He could probably do a creditable job with Boromir's temptation
      scene.

      Now his short sidekick Iolaus (Michael Hurst) might have made a good Sam --
      all bounce and cockiness and lots of emotion. Lucy Lawless gone blonde as
      Eowyn? :) (I'd prefer Xenowyn to Xenarwen!) Have to have a pretty tall guy
      for Faramir... So having access to all these Down Under actors, I wonder
      why Jackson didn't use any of them? Too recognizable? Too bad Kevin Smith
      (Ares) died -- I'm not sure who I'd cast him as, but what a great evil
      scenery-chewer. Too young for Saruman, alas, but maybe with a good wig he'd
      have managed....

      Getting out of the Hercules universe, Bowie would have made an intriguing
      Elrond -- and wouldn't have had those "Agent Smith" associations Hugo
      Weaving did. (It would have helped if Weaving didn't look like the smell of
      humans was about to gag him!) How about Susan Sarandon as Galadriel? Those
      eyes give her a sort of other-worldly luminosity. And she has the maturity
      -- I'd believe her if she said she was thousands of years old. I'd believe
      Bowie, too. Sarandon's intensity could have been quite frightening in the
      Mirror scene without any special effects.

      Janet Croft

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Pauline J. Alama [mailto:PJAlama@...]
      Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 7:15 AM
      To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Casting Game


      I think David Bowie could be good as all sorts of unearthly characters,
      because he so easily makes you believe he's not quite human. Maybe he really
      is the King of the Goblins. ;-)

      I would have liked to see Michael O'Hare (Sinclair from Babylon 5) as
      Aragorn. I thought the movie Aragorn was OK, but I pictured someone older
      and grimmer-looking, with darker coloring. Michael O'Hare as Sinclair spent
      a lot of time looking haunted (as required by a role where mysterious aliens
      keep telling you "There's a hole in your mind") or grimly resolved in the
      face of overwhelming odds. And yet with it all a certain kindness shone
      through. The creator of Babylon 5 may even have had something of the sort in
      mind when he cast the character of Sinclair, who becomes the leader of a
      sort of military order called the "Rangers."

      As I think others have commented, the movie's Aragorn & Boromir were a
      little too similar in appearance. I would like them to be ini sharp
      contrast. And I'll bet some of you will hate my choice for Boromir: Kevin
      Sorbo (of Hercules, the Legendary Journeys). My concept of Boromir is that
      in a more conventional adventure story, he would have been the hero: the
      warrior-adventurer, the blond, muscular firstborn nobleman who has spent
      many years bravely holding the line against the forces of evil by the might
      of the sword. By making him a failed hero and even for one crucial moment a
      traitor, Tolkien made a statement about the flaw inherent in this
      conventional concept of heroism (a sort of heroism he'd seen disastrously
      put to the test in WWI). I would want to make Boromir look as much like a
      conventional, muscular hero as possible -- even, like body-builder Sorbo,
      almost to the point of caricature. And audiences are so used to seeing Sorbo
      play a 24-carat good guy as Hercules that I think seeing Boromir's treason
      would have shaken the audience a bit. As I think it ought to. One of my
      biggest disagreements with the movie (which on the whole I enjoyed) was that
      it made Boromir's treason too easy to spot a mile off, and not enough of a
      jolt when it finally happened.

      I'm not sure who I would have wanted to see as Galadriel. I thought
      Blanchett was OK, but I didn't always like what the screenplay selected &
      didn't select for her lines, and I hated the FX during her temptation scene.
      I think Winona Ryder might have made an interresting Arwen. She always looks
      kind of otherworldly to me.

      Pauline

      Pauline J. Alama
      http://www.geocities.com/paulinejalama/paulinealama.html
      <http://www.geocities.com/paulinejalama/paulinealama.html>
      THE EYE OF NIGHT
      (Bantam Spectra, July 2002)


      --- On Tue 09/17, Lisa Deutsch Harrigan wrote:
      From: Lisa Deutsch Harrigan [mailto: lisa@...]
      To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 16:09:35 -0700
      Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Casting Game

      > We can talk about the film and might have been casting. MythSoc played
      > casting games for years. Why not now?
      >
      > I agree, David Bowie would have made an interesting Elrond. I can see
      > him in the costume and wig they gave Weaving. And, although he's a good
      > singer, his acting has never struck me as deep/complex. Plus a piece of
      > me would tend to break into songs from Labyrinth when least expected
      > . Let's face it, he did a variant on the roll which much better
      > suited to him when he played Goblin King in Labyrinth. I think that
      > pretty much ended his chance for Elrond. I'm glad he did the Goblin King
      > though.
      >
      > I actually like Blanchett as Galadriel. But I'm willing to talk about
      > other options.
      >
      > I really don't know how I expected Orthanc to look. That's one of those
      > things that didn't create a strong visual picture for me. I should
      > probably reread that part of the book again, to see if anything shows
      > up. Until then I can live with the movie version.
      >
      > Mythically yours,
      > Lisa
      >
      > odzer@... wrote:
      >
      > >Is it true that David Bowie wanted to be cast as Elrond, or is that
      > another
      > >legend? Oh, he would have been nearly perfect, in as much as any actor
      > could
      > >be cast...well, others may vehemently disagree, but I think he would
      > have
      > >been interesting...handsome, wise, graceful, noble, sophisticated,
      > profound,
      > >delicate yet strong, and of course, unusual looking.(though are elves
      > really
      > >delicate, this seems a dubious reading and I know Tolkien loudly
      > objected to
      > >it being construed as a dominent characteristic of elves, it comes up
      > in one,
      > >nay, several letters, I recall)
      > >Opps, now I am talking about the film, and are we not supposed to keep
      > that
      > >to a minimum here? Then I better not go on with retroactive
      > nominations for
      > >Galadriel...
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
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      >
      >
      >

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    • Stolzi@aol.com
      In a message dated 9/17/2002 6:07:24 PM Central Daylight Time, ... Now that I think abt it, Tolkien may have drawn a picture of it ? Diamond Proudbrook
      Message 2 of 16 , Sep 18, 2002
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        In a message dated 9/17/2002 6:07:24 PM Central Daylight Time,
        lisa@... writes:


        > I really don't know how I expected Orthanc to look. That's one of those
        > things that didn't create a strong visual picture for me. I should
        > probably reread that part of the book again, to see if anything shows
        > up. Until then I can live with the movie version.
        >

        Now that I think abt it, Tolkien may have drawn a picture of it ?

        Diamond Proudbrook



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • SusanPal@aol.com
        In a message dated 9/18/2002 8:49:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Stolzi@aol.com ... Yes -- I believe it s in the back of the END OF THE THIRD AGE. Susan
        Message 3 of 16 , Sep 18, 2002
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          In a message dated 9/18/2002 8:49:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Stolzi@...
          writes:


          > Now that I think abt it, Tolkien may have drawn a picture of it ?
          >

          Yes -- I believe it's in the back of the END OF THE THIRD AGE.

          Susan


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Margaret Dean
          ... Tolkien in fact drew =several= pictures of it. Quickly checking my copy of J.R.R. TOLKIEN: ARTIST AND ILLUSTRATOR, I find no fewer than three different
          Message 4 of 16 , Sep 18, 2002
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            SusanPal@... wrote:
            >
            > In a message dated 9/18/2002 8:49:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Stolzi@...
            > writes:
            >
            > > Now that I think abt it, Tolkien may have drawn a picture of it ?
            >
            > Yes -- I believe it's in the back of the END OF THE THIRD AGE.

            Tolkien in fact drew =several= pictures of it. Quickly checking
            my copy of J.R.R. TOLKIEN: ARTIST AND ILLUSTRATOR, I find no
            fewer than three different sketches, suggesting that it took a
            while for Tolkien himself to work out exactly what the tower
            looked like.


            --Margaret Dean
            <margdean@...>
          • Stolzi@aol.com
            In a message dated 9/18/2002 9:32:14 AM Central Daylight Time, jbcroft@ou.edu ... I commended John Rhys-Davies Gimli here a few days ago. I shd also say that
            Message 5 of 16 , Sep 18, 2002
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              In a message dated 9/18/2002 9:32:14 AM Central Daylight Time, jbcroft@...
              writes:


              > Too young for Saruman, alas, but maybe with a good wig he'd
              > have managed....
              >

              I commended John Rhys-Davies' Gimli here a few days ago. I shd also say that
              McKellen as Gandalf never puts a foot wrong. GREAT performance.

              However, speaking of wigs, in one scene I was about to move my allegiance
              over to Saruman - just for having nice clean hair. There was a close-up of
              McKellen's head, and this was, iirc, =before= Saruman started to wipe up the
              floor with him - and his hair was so dirty and greasy and matted-looking and
              unkempt, I went YECCCH.

              Diamond Proudbrook


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • dianejoy@earthlink.net
              I figured Jackson didn t trust Blanchett to create the effect he was after, so added all the SPFX. In that case, why did he cast her? To my mind, she would
              Message 6 of 16 , Sep 18, 2002
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                I figured Jackson didn't trust Blanchett to create the effect he was after,
                so added all the SPFX. In that case, why did he cast her? To my mind, she
                would have been perfectly capable of delivering the lines asked of her in
                the temptation scene; it's ultimately Jackson's fault that there are SPFX.

                I nominate Marjorie Monnaghan (from Babylon 5) as Eowyn. ---djb

                Original Message:
                -----------------
                How about Susan Sarandon as Galadriel? Those
                eyes give her a sort of other-worldly luminosity. And she has the maturity
                -- I'd believe her if she said she was thousands of years old. I'd believe
                Bowie, too. Sarandon's intensity could have been quite frightening in the
                Mirror scene without any special effects.

                Janet Croft



                The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org

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              • Old.Ghost@juno.com
                ... Actually, I rather liked the way it was done. As someone elsewhere remarked, you could tell that Aragorn and Boromir were from
                Message 7 of 16 , Sep 18, 2002
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                  <de-lurking for a moment>

                  mythsoc@yahoogroups.com writes:
                  > From: "Pauline J. Alama" <PJAlama@...>
                  > Subject: Re: Casting Game
                  > As I think others have commented, the movie's Aragorn & Boromir were
                  > a little too similar in appearance. I would like them to be in
                  > sharp contrast.

                  Actually, I rather liked the way it was done. As someone elsewhere
                  remarked, you could tell that Aragorn and Boromir were from the same
                  clan, both of them harkening back to what Men once were before the
                  dissipation of the race (stronger, more long-lived, etc.). They were
                  similar enough to satisfy the need to show that Aragorn's line was once
                  ruler of Boromir's people, and different enough to show that while
                  Aragorn's line remained true to its purpose, Boromir's had (one might
                  say) "fallen away from the true path".

                  > concept of Boromir is that in a more conventional adventure story,
                  > he would have been the hero: the warrior-adventurer, the blond,
                  > muscular firstborn nobleman who has spent many years bravely holding
                  > the line against the forces of evil by the might of the sword. By
                  > making him a failed hero and even for one crucial moment a traitor,
                  > Tolkien made a statement about the flaw inherent in this
                  > conventional concept of heroism (a sort of heroism he'd seen
                  > disastrously put to the test in WWI).

                  <snip>

                  > it made Boromir's treason too easy to spot a mile off, and not
                  > enough of a jolt when it finally happened.

                  This is what I think Sean Bean managed to pull off very well. His
                  Boromir had fought the monsters for too long and, in doing so, became
                  (just for that crucial instant) the monster. But for a movie, I think
                  you *have* to be able to see that potential in the eyes (and with
                  foreshadowing) before it happens or it falls flat. In a book, you don't
                  have the eyes and you can do it another way. The movie keeps going and
                  you can't stop it to consider what you've seen (unless it's on video) so
                  it has to be made plain enough to be caught the first time. In a book,
                  you can take your time, as with a fine wine, and savor and consider each
                  part before moving on. If Boromir *had* been the "He-Man, Master of the
                  Universe" type who suddenly for no reason turns on the Fellowship, I
                  probably would've hated it.

                  > I'm not sure who I would have wanted to see as Galadriel.

                  My one quibble is that too many roles were played by actors with known
                  reputations. For me, it makes it harder to suspend the disbelief when I
                  know John Rhys-Davies is Gimli or Liv Tyler is Arwen. Yes, I can
                  appreciate their acting talents, but always in the back of my mind, I
                  don't see Arwen, I see Tyler ... I don't see Boromir, I see Sean Bean,
                  etc.

                  ~ Old Ghost
                  (who, by the way, is taking a course in "Modern Fantasy" this semester
                  ... if anyone is interested)

                  <re-lurking>

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                • WendellWag@aol.com
                  In a message dated 9/18/2002 10:32:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ... He did use some Down Under actors. Both Cate Blanchett and Hugo Weaving are Australian. In
                  Message 8 of 16 , Sep 18, 2002
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                    In a message dated 9/18/2002 10:32:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                    jbcroft@... writes:


                    > So having access to all these Down Under actors, I wonder
                    > why Jackson didn't use any of them?
                    >
                    > How about Susan Sarandon as Galadriel?

                    He did use some Down Under actors. Both Cate Blanchett and Hugo Weaving are
                    Australian.

                    In my casting of the film from years ago, I always saw Galadriel as being
                    played by some bombshell 50-ish or maybe 60-ish actress. Susan Sarandon was
                    one possibility I had thought of. I also considered Francesca Annis,
                    Catherine Deneuve, and Jane Fonda.

                    Wendell Wagner


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • dianejoy@earthlink.net
                    Maybe Kathleen Turner? ... From: WendellWag@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 23:22:14 EDT To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Casting Game In a
                    Message 9 of 16 , Sep 19, 2002
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                      Maybe Kathleen Turner?

                      Original Message:
                      -----------------
                      From: WendellWag@...
                      Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 23:22:14 EDT
                      To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Casting Game


                      In a message dated 9/18/2002 10:32:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                      jbcroft@... writes:


                      > So having access to all these Down Under actors, I wonder
                      > why Jackson didn't use any of them?
                      >
                      > How about Susan Sarandon as Galadriel?

                      He did use some Down Under actors. Both Cate Blanchett and Hugo Weaving
                      are
                      Australian.

                      In my casting of the film from years ago, I always saw Galadriel as being
                      played by some bombshell 50-ish or maybe 60-ish actress. Susan Sarandon
                      was
                      one possibility I had thought of. I also considered Francesca Annis,
                      Catherine Deneuve, and Jane Fonda.

                      Wendell Wagner


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                      The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org

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                    • Croft, Janet B
                      How about Nana Visitor -- Kira on ST:DS9 -- as Eowyn? Petite but a nasty fighter...I can see her taking the head off a Nazgul, no problem! And for the less
                      Message 10 of 16 , Sep 20, 2002
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                        How about Nana Visitor -- Kira on ST:DS9 -- as Eowyn? Petite but a nasty
                        fighter...I can see her taking the head off a Nazgul, no problem!

                        And for the less serious casting game, Armin Shimerman as Legolas!

                        Janet "doing anything to avoid real work on a Friday aftermoon" Croft

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Lisa Deutsch Harrigan [mailto:lisa@...]
                        Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 4:28 PM
                        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Casting Game


                        And people thought the casting game was over when the movies came out <g>.

                        I've met Michael O'Hare. He's too gentle for Aragorn. Even through
                        Aragorn doesn't do the Big Hero (Kevin Sorbo) type of thing often, he
                        does have to have that in there somewhere. Michael doesn't have that.

                        It is interesting that B5 actors would show up in the casting calls, as
                        JMS is a big myth fan and has studied Tolkien. It shows in the values
                        and style of the show. We're probably seeing a reflection of that in
                        these casting calls.

                        Kevin's been busy making this tv show called Andromeda... I like him in
                        that, so I'm not complaining too much.

                        I think that Iolaus (Michael Hurst) looks too old for Sam. Especially
                        since Peter and Fran ended up casting such a young actor for Frodo.

                        Lucy Lawless strikes me as too tall for Eowyn. Even though Eowyn passed
                        herself off as a man when in battle. I seem to remember she looked like
                        a small man. Lucy is not small, by any definition of a man <g>.

                        Now Marjorie Monnaghan could kick ass and still look like a small man in
                        armor. She can look so feminine and then Bam. Tracy Scoggins is also
                        strong and a good fighter and could pull it off. Capt Elizabeth Lochley
                        was a warrior, and that is very much in Tracy's image of herself. Joe
                        likes his women strong and intelligent. And yes, I've met just about
                        every actor in B5. Just a bit of a fan <g>.

                        Susan Sarandon as Galadriel, now that's an interesting thought. G is
                        thousands of years old, but looks like a young woman. But Susan doesn't
                        really look her age either. And she can act!

                        Onward with the listings!

                        Mythically yours,
                        Lisa




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                      • Lisa Deutsch Harrigan
                        And people thought the casting game was over when the movies came out . I ve met Michael O Hare. He s too gentle for Aragorn. Even through Aragorn doesn t
                        Message 11 of 16 , Sep 20, 2002
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                          And people thought the casting game was over when the movies came out <g>.

                          I've met Michael O'Hare. He's too gentle for Aragorn. Even through
                          Aragorn doesn't do the Big Hero (Kevin Sorbo) type of thing often, he
                          does have to have that in there somewhere. Michael doesn't have that.

                          It is interesting that B5 actors would show up in the casting calls, as
                          JMS is a big myth fan and has studied Tolkien. It shows in the values
                          and style of the show. We're probably seeing a reflection of that in
                          these casting calls.

                          Kevin's been busy making this tv show called Andromeda... I like him in
                          that, so I'm not complaining too much.

                          I think that Iolaus (Michael Hurst) looks too old for Sam. Especially
                          since Peter and Fran ended up casting such a young actor for Frodo.

                          Lucy Lawless strikes me as too tall for Eowyn. Even though Eowyn passed
                          herself off as a man when in battle. I seem to remember she looked like
                          a small man. Lucy is not small, by any definition of a man <g>.

                          Now Marjorie Monnaghan could kick ass and still look like a small man in
                          armor. She can look so feminine and then Bam. Tracy Scoggins is also
                          strong and a good fighter and could pull it off. Capt Elizabeth Lochley
                          was a warrior, and that is very much in Tracy's image of herself. Joe
                          likes his women strong and intelligent. And yes, I've met just about
                          every actor in B5. Just a bit of a fan <g>.

                          Susan Sarandon as Galadriel, now that's an interesting thought. G is
                          thousands of years old, but looks like a young woman. But Susan doesn't
                          really look her age either. And she can act!

                          Onward with the listings!

                          Mythically yours,
                          Lisa
                        • SusanPal@aol.com
                          Hey, how about Sigourney Weaver as Eowyn? Or Galadriel, for that matter? (We know she looks okay in a blonde wig; she played being blonde as comedy in
                          Message 12 of 16 , Sep 20, 2002
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                            Hey, how about Sigourney Weaver as Eowyn? Or Galadriel, for that matter?
                            (We know she looks okay in a blonde wig; she played being blonde as comedy in
                            GalaxyQuest, and I'm sure could do it seriously in FotR. And she's got the
                            cheekbones.)

                            This is too much fun. Back to work!

                            Susan
                          • David S. Bratman
                            ... I certainly did. *sigh*
                            Message 13 of 16 , Sep 20, 2002
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                              At 02:28 PM 9/20/2002 , Lisa wrote:
                              >And people thought the casting game was over when the movies came out <g>.

                              I certainly did. *sigh*
                            • dianejoy@earthlink.net
                              wish I d thought of Sigourney. One of my favorite actresses. She d be terrif in either part. ---djb ... From: SusanPal@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002
                              Message 14 of 16 , Sep 23, 2002
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                                wish I'd thought of Sigourney. One of my favorite actresses. She'd be
                                terrif in either part. ---djb

                                Original Message:
                                -----------------
                                From: SusanPal@...
                                Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 17:29:57 EDT
                                To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Casting Game


                                Hey, how about Sigourney Weaver as Eowyn? Or Galadriel, for that matter?
                                (We know she looks okay in a blonde wig; she played being blonde as comedy
                                in
                                GalaxyQuest, and I'm sure could do it seriously in FotR. And she's got the
                                cheekbones.)

                                This is too much fun. Back to work!

                                Susan


                                The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org

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