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  • Joan Marie Verba
    ... As Lisa said, this list is open to anyone who wishes to discuss fantasy (especially, but not limited to, the works of Tolkien, Lewis, and Williams)--or
    Message 1 of 27 , Sep 9, 2002
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      SusanPal@... wrote:
      >
      > I've mentioned this list in my Tolkien class, and today one of my students
      > asked if she could join. I couldn't think of any reason she wouldn't be able
      > to -- I told her it was a fairly scholarly, Inklings-based discussion list --
      > but don't want to give out list info until I've double-checked that.
      >
      > What saith the list?

      As Lisa said, this list is open to anyone who wishes to discuss fantasy
      (especially, but not limited to, the works of Tolkien, Lewis, and
      Williams)--or just read the list discussions. One does not have to be a
      member of the Mythopoeic Society to join the list. And one can read the
      messages on the web without joining the list.

      So feel free to give list subscription instructions to anyone you feel
      might be interested!

      Joan
      Friendly Neighborhood Mythsoc List Administrator
      ******************************************
      Joan Marie Verba
      verba001@...
      http://www.sff.net/people/Joan.Marie.Verba
    • David S. Bratman
      Susan - It s an open list, as others have observed, so you can pass along list subscription info to anyone you d like. But, so they will get the most out of
      Message 2 of 27 , Sep 9, 2002
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        Susan -

        It's an open list, as others have observed, so you can pass along list
        subscription info to anyone you'd like. But, so they will get the most out
        of it and we will get the most out of them, I'd advise pushing it
        specifically towards those students you think will make the best
        contributions; perhaps you could also show them some of your own posts
        (which you need no one else's permission to do) to give them an idea of
        what kind of list this is, as Tolkien and fantasy lists vary in tone and
        approach a lot.

        - David Bratman
      • SusanPal@aol.com
        In a message dated 9/9/2002 11:29:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ... I m not giving the info to the entire class; one student asked because I d mentioned the
        Message 3 of 27 , Sep 10, 2002
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          In a message dated 9/9/2002 11:29:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
          dbratman@... writes:


          > I'd advise pushing it
          > specifically towards those students you think will make the best
          > contributions; perhaps you could also show them some of your own posts
          > (which you need no one else's permission to do) to give them an idea of
          > what kind of list this is, as Tolkien and fantasy lists vary in tone and
          > approach a lot.
          >

          I'm not giving the info to the entire class; one student asked because I'd
          mentioned the criticism discussion (among others) and she thought that
          sounded interesting. And I emphasized that it was an academic/scholarly
          rather than fannish list, and that it was devoted to all the Inklings, not
          just JRRT.

          And in my experience, when people land on lists that aren't suited to them,
          they tend to vanish quickly anyway!

          Thanks,
          Susan


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • SusanPal@aol.com
          Hello, all! I m delurking for a moment to ask a question. Next summer I ll be teaching an online seminar about THE LORD OF THE RINGS for gifted-and-talented
          Message 4 of 27 , Dec 11, 2004
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            Hello, all! I'm delurking for a moment to ask a question.

            Next summer I'll be teaching an online seminar about THE LORD OF THE RINGS
            for gifted-and-talented kids. I've taught writing seminars for this same
            outfit twice now, and the ages range from seven to eighteen. They're all
            enormously precocious intellectually, but the emotional-maturity level varies
            hugely, as you'd expect.

            Right now I'm trying to figure out how to structure this seminar and what
            approach to take. These courses are normally five days, but I think I'll
            recommend that this one be six, so we can discuss one Book of LotR a day; that's a
            neat division. The larger issue is how to approach the material
            thematically. I'll probably write a mini-lecture for each day, pointing out highlights
            in that day's material, informing them of any JRRT biographical issues that
            seem pertinent, and asking a range of discussion questions, so the students
            can talk about the aspect of the reading that appeals to them most. (These
            seminars are very free-form and ungraded, which makes things much easier on the
            instructor). As a middle-aged woman, I'm most interested in issues of
            mortality and grief in LotR, but I don't expect those topics to resonate for these
            students! They're probably going to be most excited about the
            world-and-language-building aspects of Tolkien's work; that's what tends to fascinate my
            college students, and it's certainly what hooked me, at that age. But I want
            to stay out of "elves are cool and here's my fanfic" territory, and I'm not
            qualified to talk about heavy-duty linguistic matters.

            Has anyone here taught LotR to a similar population? Do you have any ideas
            about topics or approaches that are particularly successful with this kind of
            student?

            Thanks,
            Susan


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • David Bratman
            I hope that Mike Foster, Tolkien instructor par excellence, has time to respond to this. My inclination would be to try to lean away from the
            Message 5 of 27 , Dec 12, 2004
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              I hope that Mike Foster, Tolkien instructor par excellence, has time to
              respond to this.

              My inclination would be to try to lean away from the running-commentary
              model, towards the idea of highlighting for each session a major theme of
              LOTR that's particularly appropriate for that day's Book. Perhaps the
              morality of war for Book 3, the nature of evil for Book 4, death and the
              desire for deathlessness in Book 5, eucatastrophe for Book 6.


              At 05:14 PM 12/11/2004 -0500, Susan wrote:

              >Next summer I'll be teaching an online seminar about THE LORD OF THE RINGS
              >for gifted-and-talented kids. I've taught writing seminars for this same
              >outfit twice now, and the ages range from seven to eighteen. They're all
              >enormously precocious intellectually, but the emotional-maturity level
              varies
              >hugely, as you'd expect.
              >
              >Right now I'm trying to figure out how to structure this seminar and what
              >approach to take. These courses are normally five days, but I think I'll
              >recommend that this one be six, so we can discuss one Book of LotR a day;
            • SusanPal@aol.com
              In a message dated 12/12/2004 10:19:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, dbratman@earthlink.net writes: My inclination would be to try to lean away from the
              Message 6 of 27 , Dec 12, 2004
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                In a message dated 12/12/2004 10:19:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                dbratman@... writes:

                "My inclination would be to try to lean away from the running-commentary
                model, towards the idea of highlighting for each session a major theme of
                LOTR that's particularly appropriate for that day's Book. Perhaps the
                morality of war for Book 3, the nature of evil for Book 4, death and the
                desire for deathlessness in Book 5, eucatastrophe for Book 6."



                Thanks, David! That's a good idea, and one I'd been leaning towards
                (without quite having gotten it formulated that elegantly yet). In practice, of
                course, the kids will happily talk about whatever they want to talk about
                anyway. That's both the beauty and the annoyance of this course structure!

                Susan






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Croft, Janet B.
                Good ideas, David. And how about world and character building for book 1 (craft of writing -- picaresque nature of incidents actually reveal a lot about
                Message 7 of 27 , Dec 13, 2004
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                  Good ideas, David. And how about world and character building for book
                  1 (craft of writing -- picaresque nature of incidents actually reveal a
                  lot about characters, etc.) and leadership, responsibility, and
                  self-sacrifice for book 2?


                  Janet Brennan Croft

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: David Bratman [mailto:dbratman@...]
                  Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 12:15 AM
                  To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Query


                  I hope that Mike Foster, Tolkien instructor par excellence, has time to
                  respond to this.

                  My inclination would be to try to lean away from the running-commentary
                  model, towards the idea of highlighting for each session a major theme
                  of LOTR that's particularly appropriate for that day's Book. Perhaps
                  the morality of war for Book 3, the nature of evil for Book 4, death and
                  the desire for deathlessness in Book 5, eucatastrophe for Book 6.


                  At 05:14 PM 12/11/2004 -0500, Susan wrote:

                  >Next summer I'll be teaching an online seminar about THE LORD OF THE
                  >RINGS for gifted-and-talented kids. I've taught writing seminars for
                  >this same outfit twice now, and the ages range from seven to eighteen.

                  >They're all enormously precocious intellectually, but the
                  >emotional-maturity level
                  varies
                  >hugely, as you'd expect.
                  >
                  >Right now I'm trying to figure out how to structure this seminar and
                  >what approach to take. These courses are normally five days, but I
                  >think I'll recommend that this one be six, so we can discuss one Book
                  >of LotR a day;




                  The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                • SusanPal@aol.com
                  In a message dated 12/13/2004 7:32:56 AM Pacific Standard Time, jbcroft@ou.edu writes: Good ideas, David. And how about world and character building for
                  Message 8 of 27 , Dec 13, 2004
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                    In a message dated 12/13/2004 7:32:56 AM Pacific Standard Time,
                    jbcroft@... writes:

                    "Good ideas, David. And how about world and character building for book
                    1 (craft of writing -- picaresque nature of incidents actually reveal a
                    lot about characters, etc.) and leadership, responsibility, and
                    self-sacrifice for book 2?"


                    Very helpful; thanks, Janet!

                    Susan






                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • David Bratman
                    ... I was going to suggest Faerie for Book 2, which is the book with all the Elven lands in it. Leadership, responsibility, and self-sacrifice are really
                    Message 9 of 27 , Dec 13, 2004
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                      At 09:20 AM 12/13/2004 -0600, Janet Brennan Croft wrote:
                      >
                      >Good ideas, David. And how about world and character building for book
                      >1 (craft of writing -- picaresque nature of incidents actually reveal a
                      >lot about characters, etc.) and leadership, responsibility, and
                      >self-sacrifice for book 2?

                      I was going to suggest Faerie for Book 2, which is the book with all the
                      Elven lands in it. "Leadership, responsibility, and self-sacrifice" are
                      really part of any meaningful discussion of the morality of war and facing
                      death, which I suggested as the themes for Books 3 and 5. And also can be
                      considered part of eucatastrophe (Book 6). I tend to think the leadership
                      functions, though certainly present in Book 2, are (despite Gandalf's
                      sacrifice) not as pervasive a theme as they are later on.

                      David Bratman
                    • Mike Foster
                      Thanks, Janet & David, I am currently up to my earlobes in final exams, with Fantasy Lit. tomorrow the last in the dance queue. So as Bokonon says: Busy busy
                      Message 10 of 27 , Dec 13, 2004
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                        Thanks, Janet & David,
                        I am currently up to my earlobes in final exams, with Fantasy Lit.
                        tomorrow the last in the dance queue. So as Bokonon says: 'Busy busy busy'.

                        I have passed this query along to a former student, now a smial member
                        and one of the horde eight that came up to Milwaukee from Far
                        Westfarthingshire, who's taught Tolkien at the grade 7 level for some
                        years. This seemed apt to the original query. So perhaps Lori Alwood
                        will be able to help.

                        Houghton-Mifflin has useful study guides for grade/jr. high/high school
                        teachers approaching Tolkien that are a good starting point; available
                        for the asking.

                        Wise idea: enlist the help of your school librarian. I did. But then I
                        was already married to her.

                        Mike

                        Croft, Janet B. wrote:

                        >Good ideas, David. And how about world and character building for book
                        >1 (craft of writing -- picaresque nature of incidents actually reveal a
                        >lot about characters, etc.) and leadership, responsibility, and
                        >self-sacrifice for book 2?
                        >
                        >
                        >Janet Brennan Croft
                        >
                        >-----Original Message-----
                        >From: David Bratman [mailto:dbratman@...]
                        >Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 12:15 AM
                        >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                        >Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Query
                        >
                        >
                        >I hope that Mike Foster, Tolkien instructor par excellence, has time to
                        >respond to this.
                        >
                        >My inclination would be to try to lean away from the running-commentary
                        >model, towards the idea of highlighting for each session a major theme
                        >of LOTR that's particularly appropriate for that day's Book. Perhaps
                        >the morality of war for Book 3, the nature of evil for Book 4, death and
                        >the desire for deathlessness in Book 5, eucatastrophe for Book 6.
                        >
                        >
                        >At 05:14 PM 12/11/2004 -0500, Susan wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >>Next summer I'll be teaching an online seminar about THE LORD OF THE
                        >>RINGS for gifted-and-talented kids. I've taught writing seminars for
                        >>this same outfit twice now, and the ages range from seven to eighteen.
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >>They're all enormously precocious intellectually, but the
                        >>emotional-maturity level
                        >>
                        >>
                        >varies
                        >
                        >
                        >>hugely, as you'd expect.
                        >>
                        >>Right now I'm trying to figure out how to structure this seminar and
                        >>what approach to take. These courses are normally five days, but I
                        >>think I'll recommend that this one be six, so we can discuss one Book
                        >>of LotR a day;
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • SusanPal@aol.com
                        Mike and others, Thank you for your help and ideas. Please feel free to e-mail me privately if it seems more appropriate not to clutter the list with this.
                        Message 11 of 27 , Dec 13, 2004
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                          Mike and others,

                          Thank you for your help and ideas. Please feel free to e-mail me privately
                          if it seems more appropriate not to clutter the list with this.

                          Best wishes,
                          Susan Palwick


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Beth Russell
                          ... From: SusanPal@aol.com [mailto:SusanPal@aol.com] Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 6:51 PM To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com; lindal@bumail.bradley.edu Subject:
                          Message 12 of 27 , Dec 14, 2004
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                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: SusanPal@... [mailto:SusanPal@...]
                            Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 6:51 PM
                            To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com; lindal@...
                            Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Query


                            >Mike and others,

                            >Thank you for your help and ideas. Please feel free to e-mail me
                            >privately
                            >if it seems more appropriate not to clutter the list with this.

                            >Best wishes,
                            >Susan Palwick


                            Dear Susan and others, particularly Mike and David,

                            I have been reading this series of messages avidly!! Will be teaching a
                            course, "Enjoying The Lord of the Rings", in the continuing education
                            dept. at our local branch of LSU in February. Have 6 2-hour sessions.
                            Cant decide whether I have too much to cram in, or should I worry about
                            filling up all that time!

                            My general plan for each night is to spend one hour discussing parts of
                            the text (one Book per session) and one hour talking about themes. But
                            I have no idea of the size of the class or the age of the participants.
                            For the text I thought of spending more time on scenes that are
                            significantly different in the PJ version, e.g., the Council of Elrond
                            vs. the Squabble of Elrond. However, I do not just want to do
                            movie-bashing.

                            I like David's idea of a major theme for each Book.

                            Any comments?

                            Beth



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                            The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                          • Mike Foster
                            Beth, Keep it loose. Be ready to wait for answers to your questions. Good idea to get stories of when/how each first encountered Tolkien. Amble, rather than
                            Message 13 of 27 , Dec 14, 2004
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                              Beth,
                              Keep it loose. Be ready to wait for answers to your questions. Good
                              idea to get stories of when/how each first encountered Tolkien. Amble,
                              rather than march, through the books. Suggest members pick a
                              favorite/interesting character to focus on as books proceed.

                              I've a few other ideas, but enjoy it, above all.

                              Mike

                              Beth Russell wrote:

                              >
                              >-----Original Message-----
                              >From: SusanPal@... [mailto:SusanPal@...]
                              >Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 6:51 PM
                              >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com; lindal@...
                              >Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Query
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >>Mike and others,
                              >>
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >>Thank you for your help and ideas. Please feel free to e-mail me
                              >>privately
                              >>if it seems more appropriate not to clutter the list with this.
                              >>
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >>Best wishes,
                              >>Susan Palwick
                              >>
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              >Dear Susan and others, particularly Mike and David,
                              >
                              >I have been reading this series of messages avidly!! Will be teaching a
                              >course, "Enjoying The Lord of the Rings", in the continuing education
                              >dept. at our local branch of LSU in February. Have 6 2-hour sessions.
                              >Cant decide whether I have too much to cram in, or should I worry about
                              >filling up all that time!
                              >
                              >My general plan for each night is to spend one hour discussing parts of
                              >the text (one Book per session) and one hour talking about themes. But
                              >I have no idea of the size of the class or the age of the participants.
                              >For the text I thought of spending more time on scenes that are
                              >significantly different in the PJ version, e.g., the Council of Elrond
                              >vs. the Squabble of Elrond. However, I do not just want to do
                              >movie-bashing.
                              >
                              >I like David's idea of a major theme for each Book.
                              >
                              >Any comments?
                              >
                              >Beth
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Beth Russell
                              ... From: Mike Foster [mailto:mafoster@direcway.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 4:03 PM To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Query ... Many
                              Message 14 of 27 , Dec 14, 2004
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                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Mike Foster [mailto:mafoster@...]
                                Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 4:03 PM
                                To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Query

                                >Keep it loose. Be ready to wait for answers to your questions. Good
                                >idea to get stories of when/how each first encountered Tolkien. Amble,

                                >rather than march, through the books. Suggest members pick a
                                >favorite/interesting character to focus on as books proceed.

                                >I've a few other ideas, but enjoy it, above all.

                                >Mike

                                Many thanks for taking the time to reply. I absorbed some of your ideas
                                in Marquette: Let them choose to belong to one of the different races
                                (Who wants to be a Balrog?). Most of all: What is the Ring?

                                I had not thought of them choosing a character to concentrate on! Great
                                idea! It's been years since I taught and hope it will not take too long
                                to get the hang of it again. But I suspect teaching in humanities to a
                                "volunteer" class will be different from anything I have done before:
                                guiding discussion rather than imparting facts. Bad collywobbles.

                                I do hope we get somebody who has seen the films and not read the book.
                                It would be fascinating to see the book through their eyes.

                                Cheers,

                                Beth
                              • Mike Foster
                                If you want to give them a real challenge, employ some of Jan Noble Long s brainbell jangler quizzes. As I observed in Milwaukee, they d have Christopher
                                Message 15 of 27 , Dec 14, 2004
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                                  If you want to give them a real challenge, employ some of Jan Noble
                                  Long's brainbell jangler quizzes. As I observed in Milwaukee, they'd
                                  have Christopher scratching his head.

                                  Mike

                                  Beth Russell wrote:

                                  >
                                  >-----Original Message-----
                                  >From: Mike Foster [mailto:mafoster@...]
                                  >Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 4:03 PM
                                  >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                                  >Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Query
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >>Keep it loose. Be ready to wait for answers to your questions. Good
                                  >>idea to get stories of when/how each first encountered Tolkien. Amble,
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >>rather than march, through the books. Suggest members pick a
                                  >>favorite/interesting character to focus on as books proceed.
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >>I've a few other ideas, but enjoy it, above all.
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >>Mike
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >Many thanks for taking the time to reply. I absorbed some of your ideas
                                  >in Marquette: Let them choose to belong to one of the different races
                                  >(Who wants to be a Balrog?). Most of all: What is the Ring?
                                  >
                                  >I had not thought of them choosing a character to concentrate on! Great
                                  >idea! It's been years since I taught and hope it will not take too long
                                  >to get the hang of it again. But I suspect teaching in humanities to a
                                  >"volunteer" class will be different from anything I have done before:
                                  >guiding discussion rather than imparting facts. Bad collywobbles.
                                  >
                                  >I do hope we get somebody who has seen the films and not read the book.
                                  >It would be fascinating to see the book through their eyes.
                                  >
                                  >Cheers,
                                  >
                                  >Beth
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Mike Foster
                                  One advantage you will have, Beth: they will all be there because they already like the story and want to talk and learn more about it. But hey, I have a final
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Dec 14, 2004
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                                    One advantage you will have, Beth: they will all be there because they
                                    already like the story and want to talk and learn more about it.

                                    But hey, I have a final in Fantasy Lit at 6 so must go.

                                    I must say I've succumbed to temptation to cite Jackson here in last
                                    days of term by writing on the occasional way-too-little way-too-late
                                    paper: "Recall Gandalf's words to Balrog in Moria"

                                    Later,
                                    Mike

                                    Beth Russell wrote:

                                    >
                                    >-----Original Message-----
                                    >From: Mike Foster [mailto:mafoster@...]
                                    >Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 4:03 PM
                                    >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                                    >Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Query
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >>Keep it loose. Be ready to wait for answers to your questions. Good
                                    >>idea to get stories of when/how each first encountered Tolkien. Amble,
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >>rather than march, through the books. Suggest members pick a
                                    >>favorite/interesting character to focus on as books proceed.
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >>I've a few other ideas, but enjoy it, above all.
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >>Mike
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    >Many thanks for taking the time to reply. I absorbed some of your ideas
                                    >in Marquette: Let them choose to belong to one of the different races
                                    >(Who wants to be a Balrog?). Most of all: What is the Ring?
                                    >
                                    >I had not thought of them choosing a character to concentrate on! Great
                                    >idea! It's been years since I taught and hope it will not take too long
                                    >to get the hang of it again. But I suspect teaching in humanities to a
                                    >"volunteer" class will be different from anything I have done before:
                                    >guiding discussion rather than imparting facts. Bad collywobbles.
                                    >
                                    >I do hope we get somebody who has seen the films and not read the book.
                                    >It would be fascinating to see the book through their eyes.
                                    >
                                    >Cheers,
                                    >
                                    >Beth
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Joe Christopher
                                    I ve got a question about Gene Wolfe s _An Evil Guest_; it was one of the nominees for a Mythopoeic Award last time, so I assume a number of Society members
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Nov 20, 2009
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                                      I've got a question about Gene Wolfe's _An Evil Guest_; it was one of the
                                      nominees for a Mythopoeic Award last time, so I assume a number of Society
                                      members have read it. Early in the book, the female protagonist is taken to
                                      a living mountain in Canada. (The mountain's wife lives in one of the
                                      mountain's caves.) My question is about the source of that mountain--Wolfe
                                      is referring to other literary works in that novel, particularly Lovecraft's
                                      Mythos. Is that mountain from something by Lovecraft? Is it from some
                                      other writer? I suppose it might also be from Native American myths in
                                      Canada. (I read a paper on the novel at the South Central Modern Language
                                      Association this fall without knowing the source of the mountain, so it's
                                      not direly important; but one of these years I want to revise and expand
                                      that paper--and it would be nice to know for the revision.)

                                      I'd appreciate any information.
                                      --Joe

                                      P.S. Thank you, Edith, for the kind words about my book. Anthony Boucher
                                      was important to me from the time, in junior high school, I read "The
                                      Compleat Werewolf." I was happy to put together a book of his radio
                                      scripts.
                                    • Lisa Padol
                                      ... I have been told it is a reference to Cory Doctorow s novel _Someone Comes to Town, Someone Leaves Town_. -Lisa
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Nov 21, 2009
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                                        > I've got a question about Gene
                                        > Wolfe's _An Evil Guest_; it was one of the
                                        > nominees for a Mythopoeic Award last time, so I assume a
                                        > number of Society
                                        > members have read it.  Early in the book, the female
                                        > protagonist is taken to
                                        > a living mountain in Canada.  (The mountain's wife
                                        > lives in one of the
                                        > mountain's caves.)  My question is about the source of
                                        > that mountain--Wolfe
                                        > is referring to other literary works in that novel,
                                        > particularly Lovecraft's
                                        > Mythos.  Is that mountain from something by
                                        > Lovecraft?  Is it from some
                                        > other writer?  I suppose it might also be from Native
                                        > American myths in
                                        > Canada.  (I read a paper on the novel at the South
                                        > Central Modern Language
                                        > Association this fall without knowing the source of the
                                        > mountain, so it's
                                        > not direly important; but one of these years I want to
                                        > revise and expand
                                        > that paper--and it would be nice to know for the
                                        > revision.)

                                        I have been told it is a reference to Cory Doctorow's novel _Someone Comes to Town, Someone Leaves Town_.

                                        -Lisa
                                      • CHRISTOPHER, DR. JOE R.
                                        I m looking for a reference about Tolkien s note on Joyce s _Finnegans Wake_. Scull and Hammond mention it in a general way in _The JRRT Companion and Guide_
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Jun 20, 2014
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                                          I'm looking for a reference about Tolkien's note on Joyce's _Finnegans Wake_. Scull and Hammond mention it in a general way in _The JRRT Companion and Guide_ 2.817, but I think I have seen a reference to the note that indicates Tolkien was interested in Joyce's playing with language or his puns or something of that sort. Can anyone give me the reference? Thanks. P.S. Tom Shippey, in _JRRT: Author of the Century_, uses _FW_ in comparisons, but that is not the point at issue. --Joe
                                        • Andrew Higgins
                                          Dr Christopher As Dimitra Fimi indicates in her book Tolkien, Race and Cultural History - From Fairies to Hobbits (Palgrave 2010) there exists in the
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Jun 20, 2014
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                                            Dr Christopher 

                                            As Dimitra Fimi indicates in her book Tolkien, Race and Cultural History - From Fairies to Hobbits (Palgrave 2010) there exists in the manuscripts of Tolkien's Secret Vice papers held at the Bodleian Library, Oxford two pages of notes on Joyce's Finnegan's Wake (MS Tolkien 24 fols 44-45) Fimi, 2010, p. 210. I also believe in one of the Parma Eldalamberon's there is a page that includes part of Anna Livia Plurabelle - will look when I get home. 

                                            Hope that helps 
                                            Andy 


                                            From the IPAD of: 
                                            Andrew Higgins 
                                            Director of Development 
                                            Glyndebourne (andrew.higgins@...)

                                            IPhone 07447644884 

                                            Lif is læne: eal scæceð leoht and lif somod [life is fleeting: everything hastens away, light and life together]” (Beowulf trans by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1936). 

                                            On 20 Jun 2014, at 18:06, "'CHRISTOPHER, DR. JOE R.' jchristopher@... [mythsoc]" <mythsoc@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                             

                                            I'm looking for a reference about Tolkien's note on Joyce's _Finnegans Wake_. Scull and Hammond mention it in a general way in _The JRRT Companion and Guide_ 2.817, but I think I have seen a reference to the note that indicates Tolkien was interested in Joyce's playing with language or his puns or something of that sort. Can anyone give me the reference? Thanks. P.S. Tom Shippey, in _JRRT: Author of the Century_, uses _FW_ in comparisons, but that is not the point at issue. --Joe

                                          • Jeremy Edmonds
                                            Tolkien Gateway has most of the references noted at least - hope one or more of these helps! http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/James_Joyce On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Jun 20, 2014
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                                              Tolkien Gateway has most of the references noted at least - hope one or more of these helps!





                                              On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 10:18 AM, Andrew Higgins asthiggins@... [mythsoc] <mythsoc@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                               

                                              Dr Christopher 

                                              As Dimitra Fimi indicates in her book Tolkien, Race and Cultural History - From Fairies to Hobbits (Palgrave 2010) there exists in the manuscripts of Tolkien's Secret Vice papers held at the Bodleian Library, Oxford two pages of notes on Joyce's Finnegan's Wake (MS Tolkien 24 fols 44-45) Fimi, 2010, p. 210. I also believe in one of the Parma Eldalamberon's there is a page that includes part of Anna Livia Plurabelle - will look when I get home. 

                                              Hope that helps 
                                              Andy 


                                              From the IPAD of: 
                                              Andrew Higgins 
                                              Director of Development 
                                              Glyndebourne (andrew.higgins@...)

                                              IPhone 07447644884 

                                              Lif is læne: eal scæceð leoht and lif somod [life is fleeting: everything hastens away, light and life together]” (Beowulf trans by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1936). 

                                              On 20 Jun 2014, at 18:06, "'CHRISTOPHER, DR. JOE R.' jchristopher@... [mythsoc]" <mythsoc@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                               

                                              I'm looking for a reference about Tolkien's note on Joyce's _Finnegans Wake_. Scull and Hammond mention it in a general way in _The JRRT Companion and Guide_ 2.817, but I think I have seen a reference to the note that indicates Tolkien was interested in Joyce's playing with language or his puns or something of that sort. Can anyone give me the reference? Thanks. P.S. Tom Shippey, in _JRRT: Author of the Century_, uses _FW_ in comparisons, but that is not the point at issue. --Joe


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