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Frodo's Via Dolorosa

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  • David J Finnamore
    At least some of Tolkien s Christian cosmology and theology has made it to the screen. I ve read the book at least a half dozen times, and seen the movie now
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 13, 2002
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      At least some of Tolkien's Christian cosmology and theology has made it to the
      screen. I've read the book at least a half dozen times, and seen the movie now
      four times. Watching it on DVD this time, for whatever reason, I was profoundly
      struck by the fact that the Fellowship, and Frodo particularly, repeatedly faced
      the choice between grabbing for power (using the Ring "against" the Enemy), and
      dutifully walking the Via Dolorosa, so to speak, the path of suffering and
      self-sacrifice. I had noticed it before, but it stood out to me in giant 3-D
      letters this time.

      --
      David J. Finnamore
      Nashville, TN, USA
      http://www.elvenminstrel.com
      --
      Providence is a soft pillow for anxious heads. - Puritan saying
    • SusanPal@aol.com
      In a message dated 8/13/2002 10:11:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ... Yes indeed. Check out the baptismal imagery in the Mirror of Galadriel sequence --
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 13, 2002
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        In a message dated 8/13/2002 10:11:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
        daeron@... writes:


        > At least some of Tolkien's Christian cosmology and theology has made it to
        > the
        > screen.

        Yes indeed. Check out the baptismal imagery in the Mirror of Galadriel
        sequence -- although the sound-and-light-show stuff isn't like any service
        *I've* ever witnessed!

        Susan


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • David J Finnamore
        ... Ah, very good! A subtlety easily missed by a Baptist like me. She d have to have dunked him in the Silverlode for me to have gotten that one. Hmm,
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 14, 2002
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          SusanPal@... wrote:

          > > At least some of Tolkien's Christian cosmology and theology has made it to
          > > the
          > > screen.
          >
          > Yes indeed. Check out the baptismal imagery in the Mirror of Galadriel
          > sequence

          Ah, very good! A subtlety easily missed by a Baptist like me. She'd have to have
          dunked him in the Silverlode for me to have gotten that one. Hmm, Galadriel
          performing the rite, too -- does that mean Tolkien was in favor of women priests?
          8-)


          > -- although the sound-and-light-show stuff isn't like any service
          > *I've* ever witnessed!

          You don't attend one of those new "seeker-friendly" churches, I take it.

          --
          David J. Finnamore
          Nashville, TN, USA
          http://www.elvenminstrel.com
          --
          "It is a good rule, after reading a new book, never to allow yourself another new one
          till you have read an old one in between." - C. S. Lewis
        • SusanPal@aol.com
          In a message dated 8/14/2002 7:45:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ... Ha! I *sincerely* doubt it, but of course in the Letters, he does explicitly compare her to
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 14, 2002
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            In a message dated 8/14/2002 7:45:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
            daeron@... writes:


            > Hmm, Galadriel
            > performing the rite, too -- does that mean Tolkien was in favor of women
            > priests?
            > 8-)
            >

            Ha! I *sincerely* doubt it, but of course in the Letters, he does explicitly
            compare her to the BVM. (A BVM who was a leader in the rebellion against the
            Valar? Oh, my. This gets very interesting!)

            >
            > > -- although the sound-and-light-show stuff isn't like any service
            > > *I've* ever witnessed!
            >
            > You don't attend one of those new "seeker-friendly" churches, I take it.
            >
            Ha again! Well, no. My teensy little church has tried to institute a
            "contemporary service" (which some of us call "Episcopal Lite," and which I
            call "The Gospel According to MTV"), but we haven't exactly gotten our act
            together yet, so we keep encountering technical difficulties, like the
            projector dying. I'm guest-preaching at another church this coming weekend
            and will be using a scan of an icon (I hope their projector works better than
            ours does!), but that's about as high-tech as I get. And the icon just sits
            there, you know, inviting contemplation: it doesn't flash and fluoresce and
            start channeling Linda Blair's voice in the Exorcist.

            Hmmmm . . . maybe Galadriel's Pentecostal . . . ?

            In our next episode: Elrond handles rattlesnakes!

            Okay, I'm getting very silly. Obviously it's time for me to go drink more
            coffee.

            Susan


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • David S. Bratman
            ... Galadriel was of course comparable to the BVM only in certain respects, just as the Passion of Frodo is comparable to that of Christ only in certain
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 14, 2002
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              At 08:17 AM 8/14/2002 , Susan wrote:

              >daeron@... writes:
              >> Hmm, Galadriel
              >> performing the rite, too -- does that mean Tolkien was in favor of women
              >> priests?
              >
              >Ha! I *sincerely* doubt it, but of course in the Letters, he does explicitly
              >compare her to the BVM. (A BVM who was a leader in the rebellion against the
              >Valar? Oh, my. This gets very interesting!)

              Galadriel was of course comparable to the BVM only in certain respects,
              just as the Passion of Frodo is comparable to that of Christ only in
              certain respects. (In other respects, the female Valar, especially Varda
              and Yavanna, are more comparable to the BVM - notice Galadriel's hymn to
              Varda.) These are excellent examples to show the difference between
              applicability and symbolism, on the one side, and allegory and encoding, on
              the other.

              - David Bratman
            • Carl F. Hostetter
              In fact, _anyone_ can perform a baptism (though having the sacrament administered by a priest is always preferred, where possible). I was taught how to do so
              Message 6 of 7 , Aug 14, 2002
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                In fact, _anyone_ can perform a baptism (though having the sacrament
                administered by a priest is always preferred, where possible). I was taught
                how to do so in my Catholic Sunday schooling; and further taught _to_ do so
                if someone should be in immediate peril of dying unbaptized (e.g., following
                a deadly accident; and if the unbaptized person is willing, of course). I
                vividly remember it being stressed that, in such a situation, any liquid
                would do, including muddy water or even Coke!


                > daeron@... writes:
                >> Hmm, Galadriel performing the rite, too -- does that mean Tolkien was in
                >> favor of women priests?


                --

                |======================================================================|
                | Carl F. Hostetter Aelfwine@... http://www.elvish.org |
                | |
                | ho bios brachys, he de techne makre. |
                | Ars longa, vita brevis. |
                | The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne. |
                | "I wish life was not so short," he thought. "Languages take |
                | such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about." |
                |======================================================================|
              • David J Finnamore
                ... R O F L !!! -- David J. Finnamore Nashville, TN, USA http://www.elvenminstrel.com -- It is a good rule, after reading a new book, never to allow yourself
                Message 7 of 7 , Aug 15, 2002
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                  SusanPal@... wrote:

                  > > You don't attend one of those new "seeker-friendly" churches, I take it.
                  > >
                  > Ha again! Well, no. My teensy little church has tried to institute a
                  > "contemporary service" (which some of us call "Episcopal Lite," and which I
                  > call "The Gospel According to MTV")

                  R
                  O
                  F
                  L
                  !!!

                  --
                  David J. Finnamore
                  Nashville, TN, USA
                  http://www.elvenminstrel.com
                  --
                  "It is a good rule, after reading a new book, never to allow yourself another new one till you have read an old one in between." - C.
                  S. Lewis
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