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Re: Large economy size Hobbits?

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  • Diane Baker
    ... I recall JJRT said that Bandaboras Took was five feet four and could ride a horse. That would be an exceptional hobbit. Since I am 5 4 and rather
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 30, 1999
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      Stolzi@... wrote:
      >
      > From: Stolzi@...
      >
      > In a message dated 08/29/1999 12:02:12 AM Central Daylight Time,
      > sschaper@... writes:
      >
      > > Shrinking them down seems problematic to me. There are certain laws
      > > of physics that will be violated enough
      > > for us to feel that it just doesn't seem right. Speed of movement,
      > > gravity, etc will be off, and our brains will notice.
      >
      > Well, Steve, as you probably know, the "tiny fairies" are a joke of mine
      > (since Tolkien so abominated them); but the Hobbits =are= going to be shrunk
      > down from normal size actors. I think their heads will look noticeably tiny;
      > human children in reality, and Hobbits as drawn by most artists, have larger
      > heads in proportion than human adults. And maybe their arms and legs will
      > seem a bit spidery...?
      >
      > It will be interesting to see what size is chosen. My friend and fellow
      > Tolkien freak here, and I, did a little thinking and experimenting. Three
      > feet is very, very, small. Four feet is more manageable for interaction -
      > but JRRT has only exceptional Hobbits attaining that height. Yet he has even
      > ordinary-size Hobbits walking twenty miles in a day, and leaping a =seven
      > foot wide chasm= in Moria. (OK, pretty desperate Hobbits, but still...)

      I recall JJRT said that Bandaboras Took was five feet four and could
      ride a horse. That would be an exceptional hobbit. Since I am 5' 4" and
      rather rotund, I'd make a rather interesting hobbit, if a large economy
      sized one. I have ridden a horse on one or more occasions, but none too
      successfully. JRRT never does say *how well* the Took rode, of course!
      Definite discrepancy of short folk walking twenty miles a day, and
      jumping wide ditches---Poul Anderson could easily snicker, since he
      writes about such mistakes in "Of Thud and Blunder." I guess even
      master craftsmen make mistakes! ---djb.
    • THEODORE SHERMAN
      I see no problem with hobbits walking 20 miles in a day. I think whether one can walk 20 miles depends not as much on one s physical size as on one s physical
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 31, 1999
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        I see no problem with hobbits walking 20 miles in a day. I think whether one can
        walk 20 miles depends not as much on one's physical size as on one's physical
        condition. At first, the hobbits in TLOR did not cover much ground, but as they got
        used to the journey and "tightened their belts" they were able to cover more
        territory.

        Walking serves as a common theme/device in much English literature, precisely
        because it was both a means of transportation and a means of relaxation/holiday
        occupation. We Americans--those Americans on this list--have tended to forget the
        value and benefits of walking, largely because we rely so heavily on the
        automobile.

        Ted

        Diane Baker wrote:

        > From: Diane Baker <dianejoy@...>
        >
        > Stolzi@... wrote:
        > >
        > > From: Stolzi@...
        > >
        > > In a message dated 08/29/1999 12:02:12 AM Central Daylight Time,
        > > sschaper@... writes:
        > >
        > > > Shrinking them down seems problematic to me. There are certain laws
        > > > of physics that will be violated enough
        > > > for us to feel that it just doesn't seem right. Speed of movement,
        > > > gravity, etc will be off, and our brains will notice.
        > >
        > > Well, Steve, as you probably know, the "tiny fairies" are a joke of mine
        > > (since Tolkien so abominated them); but the Hobbits =are= going to be shrunk
        > > down from normal size actors. I think their heads will look noticeably tiny;
        > > human children in reality, and Hobbits as drawn by most artists, have larger
        > > heads in proportion than human adults. And maybe their arms and legs will
        > > seem a bit spidery...?
        > >
        > > It will be interesting to see what size is chosen. My friend and fellow
        > > Tolkien freak here, and I, did a little thinking and experimenting. Three
        > > feet is very, very, small. Four feet is more manageable for interaction -
        > > but JRRT has only exceptional Hobbits attaining that height. Yet he has even
        > > ordinary-size Hobbits walking twenty miles in a day, and leaping a =seven
        > > foot wide chasm= in Moria. (OK, pretty desperate Hobbits, but still...)
        >
        > I recall JJRT said that Bandaboras Took was five feet four and could
        > ride a horse. That would be an exceptional hobbit. Since I am 5' 4" and
        > rather rotund, I'd make a rather interesting hobbit, if a large economy
        > sized one. I have ridden a horse on one or more occasions, but none too
        > successfully. JRRT never does say *how well* the Took rode, of course!
        > Definite discrepancy of short folk walking twenty miles a day, and
        > jumping wide ditches---Poul Anderson could easily snicker, since he
        > writes about such mistakes in "Of Thud and Blunder." I guess even
        > master craftsmen make mistakes! ---djb.
        >
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      • Stolzi@xxx.xxx
        In a message dated 08/31/1999 7:13:45 AM Central Daylight Time, ... Unfortunately Diane s recollection is slightly off. According to the Red Book, Bandobras
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 31, 1999
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          In a message dated 08/31/1999 7:13:45 AM Central Daylight Time,
          dianejoy@... writes:

          > I recall JJRT said that Bandaboras Took was five feet four and could
          > ride a horse. That would be an exceptional hobbit.

          Unfortunately Diane's recollection is slightly off. "According to the Red
          Book, Bandobras Took (Bullroarer) ... was four foot five and able to ride a
          horse."

          Pippin, arriving in Minas Tirith after the Entdraughts, gives his height as
          "but four feet and not likely to grow any more." Yet he is supposed to have
          notably grown after the Entdraughts, and indeed to have surpassed Bullroarer.
          Thus he has grown as much as six inches and not noticed! You'd think he'd
          notice his pants not fitting right. (Did they have dressing-room mirrors in
          Gondor?)

          It is at least implied by JRRT that Pippin and Merry become taller than
          Bullroarer. Does anyone know where their final stature is given, and what it
          is?

          Mary S
        • Stolzi@xxx.xxx
          In a message dated 08/31/1999 8:39:56 AM Central Daylight Time, ... It s =length of stride= that concerns me, mostly. But what would I know? I m totally
          Message 4 of 5 , Aug 31, 1999
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            In a message dated 08/31/1999 8:39:56 AM Central Daylight Time,
            tedsherman@... writes:

            > I think whether one can
            > walk 20 miles depends not as much on one's physical size as on one's
            > physical
            > condition

            It's =length of stride= that concerns me, mostly. But what would I know?
            I'm totally unathletic.

            Mary S
          • Stolzi@xxx.xxx
            I find on discussions with my friend who =really= knows the story, that Pippin and Merry got another chance at ent-draughts while on their way North and home
            Message 5 of 5 , Aug 31, 1999
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              I find on discussions with my friend who =really= knows the story, that
              Pippin and Merry got another chance at ent-draughts while on their way North
              and home after the War of the Ring. When they speak with Bilbo at Rivendell,
              they tell him that they may decide to rival Bullroarer in height, as he is
              rivaling the Old Took in age.

              Before that, at the Field of Cormallen, Sam swears that they have grown
              "three inches" since he last saw them.

              So it would seem that the growth was gradual, perhaps three inches for each
              stay with the Ents, so that when the final 6th inch was entered, Pippin would
              indeed at 4 feet 6 inches overtop Bullroarer's 4 ' 5 ".

              However, I am still worried about the average-sized Hobbit handling a
              =full-sized cart horse= (not riding it, rather driving it as it pulls a sort
              of omnibus-cart full of halflings) in one of Sylvia Hunnewell's pictures for
              the BreeMoot program book.

              Settling the important questions of our day,

              Mary S
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