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Re: [mythsoc] Terry Pratchet

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  • Stolzi@aol.com
    In a message dated 7/18/2002 1:34:36 AM Central Daylight Time, d-lena@umn.edu ... Whether dumb or not, I will not opine, but I believe he took the phrase from
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 18 2:48 PM
      In a message dated 7/18/2002 1:34:36 AM Central Daylight Time, d-lena@...
      writes:


      > "His Dark Materials" (what a dumb name for the trilogy, by the
      > way

      Whether dumb or not, I will not opine, but I believe he took the phrase from
      Milton, who perhaps makes better use of it.

      Diamond Proudbrook


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • michael_martinez2
      ... It may cry out to be parodized, but Tolkien s dialogue is superb, and you have clearly missed what he was trying to achieve with it (a criticism only of
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 18 9:01 PM
        --- In mythsoc@y..., "Croft, Janet B" <jbcroft@o...> wrote:
        > David, I agree with you about _The Amazing Maurice_ -- I think it's
        > some of Pratchett's best work, and I do hate to see him say bad
        > things about Tolkien (although like you I do sometimes cringe at
        > some of the klunkers in Tolkien's dialogue; even after I've worn
        > them smooth be reading them for 30-odd years, some of Aragorn's
        > pronouncements on the way to Weathertop set my teeth on edge, and
        > the trading of aphorisms by Gimli and Elrond just cries out to be
        > parodized).

        It may cry out to be parodized, but Tolkien's dialogue is superb, and
        you have clearly missed what he was trying to achieve with it (a
        criticism only of your perception).

        I doubt if anyone alive today could write dialogue like Tolkien's and
        pull it off so well.

        He understood what he was doing far better than most people, and he
        seemed amused in one of his letters when someone tried to take him to
        task for that dialogue.

        He was, after all, inventing idiom for languages which didn't exist,
        and expressing that idiom through modern English. Let Terry Pratchet
        and Michael Moorcock choke all they wish, neither of them is capable
        of duplicating Tolkien's eloquent dialogue, no matter how clunky it
        may seem to Tolkien's most ardent admirables.

        As Frank Herbert might have said, when it comes to Tolkien's writing,
        there were wheels within wheels within spokes....

        Long live Aragorn's name-in-a-speech: "Elendil! I am Aragorn son of
        Arathorn, and am called Elessar, the Elfstone, Dunadan, the heir of
        Isildur Elendil's son of Gondor. Here is the Sword that was Broken
        and is forged again!"

        God, I'd love to see Viggo pull that off in the next movie. It might
        make for a good line party contest.

        It's not the dialogue that is the problem. It's the setting, and
        only Tolkien could really envision it as he intended. The rest of us
        have to grope for the rhythms and inflections.
      • michael_martinez2
        ... And I say that as one admirable to another. Move the flyt into the folde, now, if you please. Loki is waiting for his turn at the wheel.
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 18 9:03 PM
          --- In mythsoc@y..., "michael_martinez2" <michael@x> wrote:
          >
          > He was, after all, inventing idiom for languages which didn't
          > exist, and expressing that idiom through modern English. Let Terry
          > Pratchet and Michael Moorcock choke all they wish, neither of them
          > is capable of duplicating Tolkien's eloquent dialogue, no matter
          > how clunky it may seem to Tolkien's most ardent admirables.

          And I say that as one admirable to another.

          Move the flyt into the folde, now, if you please. Loki is waiting
          for his turn at the wheel.
        • michael_martinez2
          Well, I don t really owe him this courtesy, but it appears that Terry Pratchett was taken to task over this article by members of the Tolkien flame
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 28 7:37 PM
            Well, I don't really owe him this courtesy, but it appears that Terry
            Pratchett was taken to task over this article by members of the
            Tolkien flame groups...er, news groups, over the past few weeks. He
            has stated he was misquoted or something.

            I mention that for the sake of completeness, although I did not
            bother to ask him about an article he wrote last year.

            I would not recommend searching for the thread as there were well
            over 400 messages when I last scanned it. I have no idea of how many
            flames there were. I draw enough of those in my own right I have no
            need to go looking for more <g>.

            'Nuff said.
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