Re: [mythsoc] Terry Pratchet
- In a message dated 7/18/2002 1:34:36 AM Central Daylight Time, d-lena@...
> "His Dark Materials" (what a dumb name for the trilogy, by theWhether dumb or not, I will not opine, but I believe he took the phrase from
Milton, who perhaps makes better use of it.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- --- In mythsoc@y..., "Croft, Janet B" <jbcroft@o...> wrote:
> David, I agree with you about _The Amazing Maurice_ -- I think it'sIt may cry out to be parodized, but Tolkien's dialogue is superb, and
> some of Pratchett's best work, and I do hate to see him say bad
> things about Tolkien (although like you I do sometimes cringe at
> some of the klunkers in Tolkien's dialogue; even after I've worn
> them smooth be reading them for 30-odd years, some of Aragorn's
> pronouncements on the way to Weathertop set my teeth on edge, and
> the trading of aphorisms by Gimli and Elrond just cries out to be
you have clearly missed what he was trying to achieve with it (a
criticism only of your perception).
I doubt if anyone alive today could write dialogue like Tolkien's and
pull it off so well.
He understood what he was doing far better than most people, and he
seemed amused in one of his letters when someone tried to take him to
task for that dialogue.
He was, after all, inventing idiom for languages which didn't exist,
and expressing that idiom through modern English. Let Terry Pratchet
and Michael Moorcock choke all they wish, neither of them is capable
of duplicating Tolkien's eloquent dialogue, no matter how clunky it
may seem to Tolkien's most ardent admirables.
As Frank Herbert might have said, when it comes to Tolkien's writing,
there were wheels within wheels within spokes....
Long live Aragorn's name-in-a-speech: "Elendil! I am Aragorn son of
Arathorn, and am called Elessar, the Elfstone, Dunadan, the heir of
Isildur Elendil's son of Gondor. Here is the Sword that was Broken
and is forged again!"
God, I'd love to see Viggo pull that off in the next movie. It might
make for a good line party contest.
It's not the dialogue that is the problem. It's the setting, and
only Tolkien could really envision it as he intended. The rest of us
have to grope for the rhythms and inflections.
- --- In mythsoc@y..., "michael_martinez2" <michael@x> wrote:
>And I say that as one admirable to another.
> He was, after all, inventing idiom for languages which didn't
> exist, and expressing that idiom through modern English. Let Terry
> Pratchet and Michael Moorcock choke all they wish, neither of them
> is capable of duplicating Tolkien's eloquent dialogue, no matter
> how clunky it may seem to Tolkien's most ardent admirables.
Move the flyt into the folde, now, if you please. Loki is waiting
for his turn at the wheel.
- Well, I don't really owe him this courtesy, but it appears that Terry
Pratchett was taken to task over this article by members of the
Tolkien flame groups...er, news groups, over the past few weeks. He
has stated he was misquoted or something.
I mention that for the sake of completeness, although I did not
bother to ask him about an article he wrote last year.
I would not recommend searching for the thread as there were well
over 400 messages when I last scanned it. I have no idea of how many
flames there were. I draw enough of those in my own right I have no
need to go looking for more <g>.