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A recreation of the Eliot, Williams talk on Christmas

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  • ssigrist
    Friends, I think that John of Damacus s discussion of Islam, which he calls Ishmaelism and includes as the latest of his catalog of heresies would also have
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 27, 2002
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      Friends,
      I think that John of Damacus's discussion of
      Islam, which he calls Ishmaelism and includes
      as the latest of his catalog of heresies
      would also have interested Williams.
      In any case ,who knows (though if there
      is some other heresy which could have been
      basis for the world made at Christmas line of
      talk I would be interested to know, it is
      a truly whimsical idea) but perhaps we might
      recreate Williams's talk(which Eliot
      remembered ) as something like this:
      ************************************
      Williams speaking..
      "The Paulianists denied that the Word
      existed before Christmas, but since
      the world was made through the Word that
      is in effect to say that the world was
      made on Christmas Day, or perhaps it
      could be put that the world was but
      a dream until Mary's Fiat by which on
      that day, both Annunciation and Christmas,
      all became Real...but then that is not
      so very different from what we believe is it?
      0r at all? What do you say Tom?"

      "figlia del tuo figlio.. who then was Mary?"

      "Mary was the figure in the dream who did
      what none of Pirandello's six could do and
      that is find the word to turn dream to
      reality and all those camels and stars
      and shephards and all the elephants of
      Hannibal and Hippos of Herodatus which had
      been but figures in a bright painting now
      become fully Real...Come now Possum,
      does it sound so false this Christmas night?"

      "I think I, for one will have another gin and lime"
      said Eliot.

      "shall we not make that two?"
    • Stolzi@aol.com
      In a message dated 4/27/02 4:45:46 PM Central Daylight Time, ... I thought she rode in on a donkey. But no, Bishop, that was very nice, very nice indeed, thank
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 27, 2002
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        In a message dated 4/27/02 4:45:46 PM Central Daylight Time,
        ssigrist@... writes:

        > Mary's Fiat

        I thought she rode in on a donkey.

        But no, Bishop, that was very nice, very nice indeed, thank you for it.

        (applause)

        And this part of Williams' coruscating talk

        > all those camels and stars
        > and shephards and all the elephants of
        > Hannibal and Hippos of Herodatus which had
        > been but figures in a bright painting now
        > become fully Real...

        is (I take it) what inspired Eliot to write "A cold coming we had of it..."
        and the other chappie to paint that wonderful painting whose name and artist
        I disremember, with the Magi in soft pinks treading down a very cold looking
        slope under a pale sky and a mighty Star.

        Diamond Proudbrook
      • Stolzi@aol.com
        In a message dated 4/27/02 4:45:46 PM Central Daylight Time, ... Gin and lime at Christmas time? That sounds too chilly For Tom and Chuck Willie. Would they
        Message 3 of 5 , Apr 30, 2002
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          In a message dated 4/27/02 4:45:46 PM Central Daylight Time,
          ssigrist@... writes:

          > Come now Possum,
          > does it sound so false this Christmas night?"
          >
          > "I think I, for one will have another gin and lime"
          > said Eliot.

          Gin and lime
          at Christmas time?
          That sounds too chilly
          For Tom and Chuck Willie.

          Would they not rather,
          Brother to brother,
          Discuss the Mystical Body
          Over a cup of steaming hot toddy?

          "My word," says Charles with fainting breath,
          "As hot as Love! As strong as Death!"
          Great Tom holds out his cup, and saith
          "I should be glad of another death."


          Diamond Proudbrook
        • Stolzi@aol.com
          A friend inquires ... DP
          Message 4 of 5 , May 1, 2002
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            A friend inquires

            > Drinking gin and lime
            > in their pyjamas
            > Could they have spent Christmas
            > in the Bahamas?

            DP
          • ssigrist
            Friends, Nice verse from Daimond... perhaps they were under the bamboo tree.. But anyway in my account, or as I recall it took place , there is a warm pub,
            Message 5 of 5 , May 2, 2002
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              Friends,
              Nice verse from Daimond...
              perhaps they were under the bamboo tree..
              But anyway in my account, or 'as I recall
              it took place', there is a warm pub,
              and Reilly with his usual gin and not
              a Dickensian 'Smoking Bishop' or something...

              Which,as far as that goes, is what I was
              (a smoking bishop that is) early after
              ordination to the work, but gave it up
              for prudential reasons...

              Now speaking of Harcourt-Reilly, it is
              maybe interesting how beside Williams
              use of Shelly's 'The Magus Zoroaster,
              my dead child,met his own image walking
              in the garden..' in Descent into Hell.
              We have Reilly citing it rather more
              fully in explaining (at the end of
              Cocktail Party) how he had forseen
              Celia's death when he first met her.

              The two uses of Shelly are distinct enough
              to make possible a 'compare and contrast'
              question for any literature teachers who
              are fortunate enough to feel their students
              could deal with it. Haven't quite worked
              it out myself, and dont worry I wont in
              this space :), uh unless urged on with
              an ecclesiastical virtual sherry or two,
              but not really the place for it I imagine,
              so not sure i could myself but it might
              have features of interest.
              +Seraphim
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