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Celeborn Query

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  • Joan Marie Verba
    ... I presume Celeborn s referring to the fact that Galadriel planned to go over the sea to Valinor while he remained in Middle-Earth. Joan
    Message 1 of 3 , Apr 1, 2002
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      SusanPal@... wrote:

      > Question: at the end of RotK, Celeborn says to Aragorn, "May your doom be
      > other than mine, and your treasure remain with you to the end!" Is this
      > explained in the "Celeborn and Galadriel" section of Unfinished Tales?

      I presume Celeborn's referring to the fact that Galadriel planned to go
      over the sea to Valinor while he remained in Middle-Earth.

      Joan
      ******************************************
      Joan Marie Verba
      verba001@...
      http://www.sff.net/people/Joan.Marie.Verba
    • michael_martinez2
      ... your doom be ... Is this ... Tales? ... to go ... Yes. Galadriel, as a former Ring-bearer, had to leave Middle-earth. Celeborn was still unwilling to sail
      Message 2 of 3 , Apr 2, 2002
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        --- In mythsoc@y..., Joan Marie Verba <verba001@t...> wrote:
        > SusanPal@a... wrote:
        >
        > > Question: at the end of RotK, Celeborn says to Aragorn, "May
        your doom be
        > > other than mine, and your treasure remain with you to the end!"
        Is this
        > > explained in the "Celeborn and Galadriel" section of Unfinished
        Tales?
        >
        > I presume Celeborn's referring to the fact that Galadriel planned
        to go
        > over the sea to Valinor while he remained in Middle-Earth.

        Yes. Galadriel, as a former Ring-bearer, had to leave Middle-earth.
        Celeborn was still unwilling to sail over Sea, which would be an
        irrevocable step for any Elf.

        Celeborn's statement is interesting, now that I think about it. When
        Aragorn tells Arwen to take ship, she says there is no ship which can
        take her now. And we generally accept that is because she has chosen
        to be mortal and has given up her place to Frodo and Bilbo (and
        Sam). But was Celeborn making an oblique reference to Mithrellas,
        who married Imrazor the Numenorean, bore him two children, and then
        left him one night (presumably to sail over Sea)?

        I guess a lot of that depends on how far Tolkien had gotten in
        developing the backstory for Imrahil at the time he wrote "Many
        Partings". Mithrellas may not yet have emerged. But Celeborn's
        statement raises some interesting possibilities.

        He started out as a Silvan Elf, in JRRT's conception, according to
        Christopher Tolkien. By the second edition he had become a Sinda of
        Doriath. And by 1973 Tolkien was thinking of Celeborn as a Teler of
        Alqualonde. This last conception is awkward because Tolkien had
        previously established that the Eldar did not marry their first
        cousins, and because Celeborn's reluctance to leave Middle-earth
        becomes inexplicable.

        At least as a Sinda or Silvan Elf Celeborn had a reason to be
        reluctant to leave Middle-earth.

        He is one of the most difficult characters to analyze because his
        history (and Galadriel's) changed so much through Tolkien's lifetime.
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