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Celeborn Query

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  • SusanPal@aol.com
    Here s a message, Michael! Question: at the end of RotK, Celeborn says to Aragorn, May your doom be other than mine, and your treasure remain with you to the
    Message 1 of 3 , Apr 1, 2002
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      Here's a message, Michael!

      Question: at the end of RotK, Celeborn says to Aragorn, "May your doom be
      other than mine, and your treasure remain with you to the end!" Is this
      explained in the "Celeborn and Galadriel" section of Unfinished Tales?

      Thanks,
      Susan
    • Joan Marie Verba
      ... I presume Celeborn s referring to the fact that Galadriel planned to go over the sea to Valinor while he remained in Middle-Earth. Joan
      Message 2 of 3 , Apr 1, 2002
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        SusanPal@... wrote:

        > Question: at the end of RotK, Celeborn says to Aragorn, "May your doom be
        > other than mine, and your treasure remain with you to the end!" Is this
        > explained in the "Celeborn and Galadriel" section of Unfinished Tales?

        I presume Celeborn's referring to the fact that Galadriel planned to go
        over the sea to Valinor while he remained in Middle-Earth.

        Joan
        ******************************************
        Joan Marie Verba
        verba001@...
        http://www.sff.net/people/Joan.Marie.Verba
      • michael_martinez2
        ... your doom be ... Is this ... Tales? ... to go ... Yes. Galadriel, as a former Ring-bearer, had to leave Middle-earth. Celeborn was still unwilling to sail
        Message 3 of 3 , Apr 2, 2002
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          --- In mythsoc@y..., Joan Marie Verba <verba001@t...> wrote:
          > SusanPal@a... wrote:
          >
          > > Question: at the end of RotK, Celeborn says to Aragorn, "May
          your doom be
          > > other than mine, and your treasure remain with you to the end!"
          Is this
          > > explained in the "Celeborn and Galadriel" section of Unfinished
          Tales?
          >
          > I presume Celeborn's referring to the fact that Galadriel planned
          to go
          > over the sea to Valinor while he remained in Middle-Earth.

          Yes. Galadriel, as a former Ring-bearer, had to leave Middle-earth.
          Celeborn was still unwilling to sail over Sea, which would be an
          irrevocable step for any Elf.

          Celeborn's statement is interesting, now that I think about it. When
          Aragorn tells Arwen to take ship, she says there is no ship which can
          take her now. And we generally accept that is because she has chosen
          to be mortal and has given up her place to Frodo and Bilbo (and
          Sam). But was Celeborn making an oblique reference to Mithrellas,
          who married Imrazor the Numenorean, bore him two children, and then
          left him one night (presumably to sail over Sea)?

          I guess a lot of that depends on how far Tolkien had gotten in
          developing the backstory for Imrahil at the time he wrote "Many
          Partings". Mithrellas may not yet have emerged. But Celeborn's
          statement raises some interesting possibilities.

          He started out as a Silvan Elf, in JRRT's conception, according to
          Christopher Tolkien. By the second edition he had become a Sinda of
          Doriath. And by 1973 Tolkien was thinking of Celeborn as a Teler of
          Alqualonde. This last conception is awkward because Tolkien had
          previously established that the Eldar did not marry their first
          cousins, and because Celeborn's reluctance to leave Middle-earth
          becomes inexplicable.

          At least as a Sinda or Silvan Elf Celeborn had a reason to be
          reluctant to leave Middle-earth.

          He is one of the most difficult characters to analyze because his
          history (and Galadriel's) changed so much through Tolkien's lifetime.
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