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Awful

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  • David E. Cote
    http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/07/opinion/07TURK.html?todaysheadlines
    Message 1 of 3 , Mar 7, 2002
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    • SusanPal@aol.com
      Yes, very awful. The black and white world of fantasy. Grrrr! Have you READ any, Ms. Turkle? What would she make of Gollum, one wonders? Susan
      Message 2 of 3 , Mar 7, 2002
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        Yes, very awful. "The black and white world of fantasy." Grrrr! Have you
        READ any, Ms. Turkle?

        What would she make of Gollum, one wonders?

        Susan
      • David S. Bratman
        I hope you will write to her, Susan, and attempt to correct some of her misapprehensions about Tolkien. It would command more attention coming from you: an
        Message 3 of 3 , Mar 7, 2002
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          I hope you will write to her, Susan, and attempt to correct some of her
          misapprehensions about Tolkien. It would command more attention coming
          from you: an academic and a humanities person rather than a "techie", and a
          woman. (One of Turkle's misapprehensions is that LotR is unattractive to
          women. Her reason is that there are no female protagonists, an example of
          the attitude of "I can't like a book unless the protagonist is just like
          me" that I was decrying in an earlier post. Turkle seems also say that
          there is no typically female thinking in LotR, which is completely wrong:
          Frodo and Sam are peaceful, not warriors, and fight only by necessity;
          Aragorn is a healer as much as a warrior; and I've heard fans of Mighty
          Barbarian Heroes complain about LotR for being full of wussies instead of
          heroes.)

          LotR can be read as a fantasy adventure game, but not without squeezing the
          life and all the point out of it. It's no more accurate to blame Tolkien
          for this attitude, which he expressly disavowed, than it is to blame
          Heinlein and the Beatles for Charles Manson.

          If you have Le Guin's critical books handy, a few quotes would go down
          well. This one, which I have handy from a post I made recently to another
          list, isn't directly addressed at Turkle's point but is useful anyway:

          "I shall never cease to wonder at the critics who find Tolkien a 'simple'
          writer. What marvelously simple minds they must have!" - Ursula K. Le
          Guin, "Science Fiction and Mrs. Brown"

          Feel free to borrow any or all of the above points. I don't want to write
          myself: I'd just be taken as one of a chorus of male (presumed)
          computeroids. I looked up her academic e-mail address anyway: it's
          sturkle@....

          David Bratman


          At 07:41 AM 3/7/2002 , Susan wrote:
          >Yes, very awful. "The black and white world of fantasy." Grrrr! Have you
          >READ any, Ms. Turkle?
          >
          >What would she make of Gollum, one wonders?
          >
          >Susan
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