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Re: [mythsoc] More tripe from the media

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  • Stolzi@aol.com
    In a message dated 2/27/02 9:40:31 PM Central Standard Time, ... That s not so significant as the complete leap over the fact that the forms of the world
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 28, 2002
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      In a message dated 2/27/02 9:40:31 PM Central Standard Time,
      michael@... writes:

      > Just exactly how much time did Tolkien spend in Italy
      > during the composition of THE LORD OF THE RINGS in the early to mid-
      > 1940s?
      >

      That's not so significant as the complete leap over the fact that "the forms
      of the world" have changed, and Middle Earth is supposed by its creator to be
      centuries and centuries and centuries in the past.

      It's insulting to Tolkien to suppose he had no concept of European history.

      I take him to mean (in both letters) that the geographical location, and the
      "flavor," of Venice are somewhat similar to those of Old Gondor in his mind.
      And so would any intelligent, =educated= person.

      Here's the man who wrote the whole rap on "sub-creation," and here's an
      ignorant reporter trying to make out that he was a delusionary who could not
      tell fiction from reality! Tripe is indeed the word.

      Diamond Proudbrook
    • Steve Law
      Diamond Proudbrook: Here s the man who wrote the whole rap on sub-creation, and here s an ignorant reporter trying to make out that he was a delusionary who
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 1, 2002
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        Diamond Proudbrook:
        "Here's the man who wrote the whole rap on
        "sub-creation," and here's an ignorant reporter trying
        to make out that he was a delusionary who could not
        tell fiction from reality! Tripe is indeed the word."

        The notion that 'Gondor' or 'Gondolin' were inspired
        by actual Viennese gondolins is obviouly nonsense,
        but Tolkien in his words and actions did on a number
        of occasions suggest that he believed his work to be
        more than just a fiction he'd created. In one of the
        later letters he recounts how he was visited by
        someone quite distinguished (but doesn't say who -
        anyone know?) who said something like "But of course
        you know you didn't just make all this up, don't
        you?", and Tolkien writes "I had to agree" or similar.


        I think there's good evidence that Tolkien believed
        his mythos was real and external to him in some
        special and specific way (although he was of course
        quite capable of distinguishing between everyday
        reality and fantasy, and was not some dotty old
        Professor lost in a dream world).


        Steve Law




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      • Stolzi@aol.com
        In a message dated 3/1/02 7:37:24 AM Central Standard Time, ... I took that to mean something like divine inspiration - not something like it s really true.
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 4, 2002
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          In a message dated 3/1/02 7:37:24 AM Central Standard Time,
          purpleom@... writes:

          > In one of the
          > later letters he recounts how he was visited by
          > someone quite distinguished (but doesn't say who -
          > anyone know?) who said something like "But of course
          > you know you didn't just make all this up, don't
          > you?", and Tolkien writes "I had to agree" or similar.

          I took that to mean something like divine inspiration - not something like
          "it's really true."

          The actual words are found in Letter 328; and if Tolkien could not recall the
          speaker's name, I see no way for us to find out who he was at this date:

          ' "Of course you don't suppose, do you, that you wrote all that book
          yourself?"

          Tolkien goes on:

          'I think I said: "No, I don't suppose so any longer." ... An alarming
          conclusion for an old philologist to draw concerning his private amusement.
          But not one that should puff any one up who considers the imperfections of
          "chosen instruments", and indeed what sometimes seems their lamentable
          unfitness for the purpose.'


          Diamond Proudbrook
        • Janet Croft
          While we re talking about the Letters -- I was trying to find the letter that included the phrase my deplorable cultus . Anyone know which one that is?
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 5, 2002
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            While we're talking about the Letters -- I was trying to find the letter
            that included the phrase "my deplorable cultus". Anyone know which one that
            is?

            Thanks,
            Janet
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Stolzi@... [mailto:Stolzi@...]
            Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 9:59 AM
            To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [mythsoc] re: More tripe from the media


            In a message dated 3/1/02 7:37:24 AM Central Standard Time,
            purpleom@... writes:

            > In one of the
            > later letters he recounts how he was visited by
            > someone quite distinguished (but doesn't say who -
            > anyone know?) who said something like "But of course
            > you know you didn't just make all this up, don't
            > you?", and Tolkien writes "I had to agree" or similar.

            I took that to mean something like divine inspiration - not something like
            "it's really true."

            The actual words are found in Letter 328; and if Tolkien could not recall
            the
            speaker's name, I see no way for us to find out who he was at this date:

            ' "Of course you don't suppose, do you, that you wrote all that book
            yourself?"

            Tolkien goes on:

            'I think I said: "No, I don't suppose so any longer." ... An alarming
            conclusion for an old philologist to draw concerning his private
            amusement.
            But not one that should puff any one up who considers the imperfections of
            "chosen instruments", and indeed what sometimes seems their lamentable
            unfitness for the purpose.'


            Diamond Proudbrook

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