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Re: [mythsoc] More tripe from the media

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  • Trudy Shaw
    Oops! I think I just hit a wrong button and sent a reply on which I hadn t replied anything but just resent David s message. Sorry. I was just going to
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 28, 2002
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      Oops! I think I just hit a wrong button and sent a reply on which I hadn't replied anything but just resent David's message. Sorry. I was just going to comment that this seems to be an example of journalists getting "native" confused with "grew up in." Do newspapers proofread anymore?--Trudy
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: David S. Bratman
      To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 10:45 PM
      Subject: Re: [mythsoc] More tripe from the media


      At 07:39 PM 2/27/2002 , Staff Reporter, Bimingham Post wrote:

      >Dated September 8, 1955, the letter was sent in reply to a young
      >admirer who had asked Tolkien when the final part of the trilogy was
      >to appear. Tolkien, who was born in Five Ways,

      Is this part of Birmingham? They're some 6000 miles off.





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    • Stolzi@aol.com
      In a message dated 2/27/02 9:40:31 PM Central Standard Time, ... That s not so significant as the complete leap over the fact that the forms of the world
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 28, 2002
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        In a message dated 2/27/02 9:40:31 PM Central Standard Time,
        michael@... writes:

        > Just exactly how much time did Tolkien spend in Italy
        > during the composition of THE LORD OF THE RINGS in the early to mid-
        > 1940s?
        >

        That's not so significant as the complete leap over the fact that "the forms
        of the world" have changed, and Middle Earth is supposed by its creator to be
        centuries and centuries and centuries in the past.

        It's insulting to Tolkien to suppose he had no concept of European history.

        I take him to mean (in both letters) that the geographical location, and the
        "flavor," of Venice are somewhat similar to those of Old Gondor in his mind.
        And so would any intelligent, =educated= person.

        Here's the man who wrote the whole rap on "sub-creation," and here's an
        ignorant reporter trying to make out that he was a delusionary who could not
        tell fiction from reality! Tripe is indeed the word.

        Diamond Proudbrook
      • Steve Law
        Diamond Proudbrook: Here s the man who wrote the whole rap on sub-creation, and here s an ignorant reporter trying to make out that he was a delusionary who
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 1, 2002
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          Diamond Proudbrook:
          "Here's the man who wrote the whole rap on
          "sub-creation," and here's an ignorant reporter trying
          to make out that he was a delusionary who could not
          tell fiction from reality! Tripe is indeed the word."

          The notion that 'Gondor' or 'Gondolin' were inspired
          by actual Viennese gondolins is obviouly nonsense,
          but Tolkien in his words and actions did on a number
          of occasions suggest that he believed his work to be
          more than just a fiction he'd created. In one of the
          later letters he recounts how he was visited by
          someone quite distinguished (but doesn't say who -
          anyone know?) who said something like "But of course
          you know you didn't just make all this up, don't
          you?", and Tolkien writes "I had to agree" or similar.


          I think there's good evidence that Tolkien believed
          his mythos was real and external to him in some
          special and specific way (although he was of course
          quite capable of distinguishing between everyday
          reality and fantasy, and was not some dotty old
          Professor lost in a dream world).


          Steve Law




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        • Stolzi@aol.com
          In a message dated 3/1/02 7:37:24 AM Central Standard Time, ... I took that to mean something like divine inspiration - not something like it s really true.
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 4, 2002
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            In a message dated 3/1/02 7:37:24 AM Central Standard Time,
            purpleom@... writes:

            > In one of the
            > later letters he recounts how he was visited by
            > someone quite distinguished (but doesn't say who -
            > anyone know?) who said something like "But of course
            > you know you didn't just make all this up, don't
            > you?", and Tolkien writes "I had to agree" or similar.

            I took that to mean something like divine inspiration - not something like
            "it's really true."

            The actual words are found in Letter 328; and if Tolkien could not recall the
            speaker's name, I see no way for us to find out who he was at this date:

            ' "Of course you don't suppose, do you, that you wrote all that book
            yourself?"

            Tolkien goes on:

            'I think I said: "No, I don't suppose so any longer." ... An alarming
            conclusion for an old philologist to draw concerning his private amusement.
            But not one that should puff any one up who considers the imperfections of
            "chosen instruments", and indeed what sometimes seems their lamentable
            unfitness for the purpose.'


            Diamond Proudbrook
          • Janet Croft
            While we re talking about the Letters -- I was trying to find the letter that included the phrase my deplorable cultus . Anyone know which one that is?
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 5, 2002
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              While we're talking about the Letters -- I was trying to find the letter
              that included the phrase "my deplorable cultus". Anyone know which one that
              is?

              Thanks,
              Janet
              -----Original Message-----
              From: Stolzi@... [mailto:Stolzi@...]
              Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 9:59 AM
              To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [mythsoc] re: More tripe from the media


              In a message dated 3/1/02 7:37:24 AM Central Standard Time,
              purpleom@... writes:

              > In one of the
              > later letters he recounts how he was visited by
              > someone quite distinguished (but doesn't say who -
              > anyone know?) who said something like "But of course
              > you know you didn't just make all this up, don't
              > you?", and Tolkien writes "I had to agree" or similar.

              I took that to mean something like divine inspiration - not something like
              "it's really true."

              The actual words are found in Letter 328; and if Tolkien could not recall
              the
              speaker's name, I see no way for us to find out who he was at this date:

              ' "Of course you don't suppose, do you, that you wrote all that book
              yourself?"

              Tolkien goes on:

              'I think I said: "No, I don't suppose so any longer." ... An alarming
              conclusion for an old philologist to draw concerning his private
              amusement.
              But not one that should puff any one up who considers the imperfections of
              "chosen instruments", and indeed what sometimes seems their lamentable
              unfitness for the purpose.'


              Diamond Proudbrook

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