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Re: [mythsoc] Mary Sue Goes To Mordor

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  • jamcconney@aol.com
    In a message dated 2/27/2002 6:35:28 AM Central Standard Time, ... I have to agree with that, although it may be a mental blindness on my part. If an
    Message 1 of 33 , Feb 27, 2002
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      In a message dated 2/27/2002 6:35:28 AM Central Standard Time,
      WendellWag@... writes:


      > . If
      > the characters are making stupid choices though, I quit enjoying the story
      > and find myself constantly saying, "What a bunch of idiots!".
      >

      I have to agree with that, although it may be a mental blindness on my part.
      If an up-to-that-point sympathetic character does something Really Really
      Stupid, I tend to simply turn off and lose interest.

      I think I'm a movie in the head type. I love to imagine stories, but it's
      more fun to make up your own. I empathize with characters of either gender
      and I love reading a good story about someone of another race or ethnicity
      and empathizing with a whole different mindset, so I don't think empathizing
      with the person most like you holds for everybody either.

      I once read a book that suggested, quite seriously, that one of the roots of
      the feminist movement was Saturday afternoon matinees featuring a western
      pictures.
      Little girls had to empathize with John Wayne because the women were
      invariably so stupid.

      Jamaq


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Paul F. Labaki
      ... and David Bratman responded ... I ve never been able to understand that kind of attitude in a reader. One of the great joys of the written word is it
      Message 33 of 33 , Mar 5, 2002
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        >
        > Susan Palwick wrote"
        >
        >> I suspect that we always insert ourselves into texts, especially texts we
        >> love, whether we intend to or not; part of the process of becoming a good
        >> reader is becoming conscious of that process and controlling it
        >
        and David Bratman responded"

        > I don't think I do that. At any rate, while I prefer stories with
        > sympathetic protagonists whose actions I understand, I never require that
        > they resemble me, and I don't quite understand the common complaint of
        > readers that they have to have a character to identify with, preferably one
        > of their own sex/race/etc.

        I've never been able to understand that kind of attitude in a reader. One
        of the great joys of the written word is it allows the reader to experience
        thoughts and emotions experienced by the characters which the reader might
        otherwise never experience in the primary world. This differs from a
        viewer's experience with film because the viewer always remains external,
        whereas readers enjoy more of an internal perspective of characters'
        experience like the puppeteer in "Being John Malkovich" literally seeing
        through another's eyes.

        I've never wanted to insert myself in stories I'm reading.


        David also wrote:

        > I see the story through whomever is the viewpoint character at the
        > time. If by "see yourself as" you mean, "whom do you think you could
        > actually be?", that for me would be the same as "with whom do you
        > identify?", which I would interpret as "whom are you most like?"
        >
        > And the answer to that for me would be Merry. (The real one, not the one
        > in the movie.) We're both more captivated by maps and history than by
        > Elves, we're more than a little pedantic (see Merry at the ruins of
        > Isengard), and we're determined to carry on despite being stranded in Rohan.

        I'm abashed to say, I am most like Bilbo, except that I could never move
        silently like a hobbit. Somehow that seems a bit presumptuous to me, but I
        think it is true, and I must say I'm disappointed, because my favorite
        character has always been Gandalf.
        >
        >
        > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
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