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LOTR, a whine for Matt

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  • Stolzi@xxx.xxx
    In a message dated 7/26/99 12:21:34 PM Central Daylight Time, ... I must say I had a problem when I heard the scuttlebutt that Gollum would be an entirely
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 26, 1999
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      In a message dated 7/26/99 12:21:34 PM Central Daylight Time,
      mwinslow@... writes:

      > (wondering if Jim Carey as Gollum would actually be an improvement at this
      > point)

      I must say I had a problem when I heard the scuttlebutt that Gollum would be
      an entirely "synthetic" character. Can that really be true? Imho, nothing
      beats reality.

      (Yes, there's a convincing mechanical person in Star Wars - R2D2. But his
      whole "shtick" is his funny, mechanical little voice. If you think about
      it, C3PO is decidedly a person - because there IS a person inside that suit.)
      What I have seen of the new plastic people, eg in the currently running SW
      movie, leaves me totally cold.

      Besides, I have seen Gollum acted in a live theatre production, and acted
      (and made up) =extremely= well.

      It's like Fuller's title, "Books with men behind them." I want to see
      Characters with men (or women, or children) behind them.

      And when they say that Gollum is the "only" synthetic character, it raises
      further questions, eg who could possibly act the Balrog? I'd rather see
      synthetic Ringwraiths and synthetic "The Eye" (only rare glimpses, =please=!
      ~~Shudder~~) and synthetic Balrog, than a synthetic Gollum.

      Incidentally, I hope they hire at least one real live Mumak, so that we, like
      Sam, will not be disappointed :)

      Of course, I had a post from our son saying that Macaulay Culkin was a
      shoo-in for the Balrog, but that it's "a tossup between Jack Valenti and
      Hillary Clinton as Sauron."

      Mary S
    • Steve Schaper
      I don t suppose anyone from Mythsoc is advising on this project? New Zealand? It has to be filmed in England! At least until they reach Rivendell! BTW, I have
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 26, 1999
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        I don't suppose anyone from Mythsoc is advising on this project?




        New Zealand? It has to be filmed in England! At least until they
        reach Rivendell!




        BTW, I have only received one copy of Mythlore since re-upping last
        fall. Ought that to be?

        --Steve
        ======================================
        It's 1999, where's Moonbase Alpha?
        ======================================
      • WendellWag@xxx.xxx
        In a message dated 7/26/99 6:04:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... Actually, it makes sense to film in New Zealand. I remember back in the mid- 70 s, before the
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 26, 1999
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          In a message dated 7/26/99 6:04:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
          sschaper@... writes:

          > New Zealand? It has to be filmed in England! At least until they reach
          > Rivendell!

          Actually, it makes sense to film in New Zealand. I remember back in the
          mid-'70's, before the Bakshi film of _The Lord of the Rings_ came out,
          discussions among Tolkien fans where it was proposed that a live film should
          be filmed in New Zealand. If it were to be filmed in Europe or North
          America, nearly any place that it could be filmed would be familiar territory
          to many people. As they watched the film, they would be thinking, "That's
          not Middle Earth. That's where I went on vacation last year." That sort of
          thing would be much less common if the film were to be shot in New Zealand.

          Furthermore, England is especially bad. Remember, England is crowded. While
          you can still film a Western in the U.S. because there are still enough
          remote places that can pass as nineteenth century locations, you can't make a
          movie supposedly set in medieval England if you film it in England (unless
          you're confined to small sets). Did you see the film _Dragonheart_ a couple
          of years ago? (A bad movie overall, but nice settings.) It did look like
          medieval England, but only because it was filmed in Slovakia.

          Wendell Wagner
        • WendellWag@xxx.xxx
          In a message dated 7/26/99 6:04:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... No, nor anyone from the (British) Tolkien Society, which would be an even more obvious choice.
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 26, 1999
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            In a message dated 7/26/99 6:04:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
            sschaper@... writes:

            > I don't suppose anyone from Mythsoc is advising on this project?

            No, nor anyone from the (British) Tolkien Society, which would be an even
            more obvious choice. Apparently Peter Jackson has talked with Christopher
            Tolkien.

            Wendell Wagner
          • Steve Schaper
            ... I was just thinking about how many areas were roughly modeled on areas on England, esp., if I remember correctly, the West Midlands. There are certain
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 26, 1999
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              At 8:43 PM -0400 7/26/99, WendellWag@... wrote:
              >
              >
              >Actually, it makes sense to film in New Zealand. I remember back in the
              >mid-'70's,


              I was just thinking about how many areas were roughly modeled on
              areas on England, esp., if I remember correctly, the West Midlands.
              There are certain types of hills or 'down's that they have in
              England. I'm not sure they have them anywhere else.

              -Steve
              ======================================
              It's 1999, where's Moonbase Alpha?
              ======================================
            • Berni Phillips
              I realize Joan already gave him the practical answer, but I just couldn t resist this. After all, I am the Bratwife. ... Of course it ought not to be! But
              Message 6 of 12 , Jul 26, 1999
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                I realize Joan already gave him the practical answer, but I just
                couldn't resist this. After all, I am the Bratwife.

                > From: Steve Schaper <sschaper@...>

                > BTW, I have only received one copy of Mythlore since re-upping last
                > fall. Ought that to be?

                Of course it ought not to be! But that's the way it's been under Glen.

                Looking forward to a new editor,
                Berni
                -- I didn't ask for an ad after my name. --
              • David Lenander
                Responding to the message of ... [. . . .] ... Well, I wouldn t have put it quite the way that Berni did, and I will
                Message 7 of 12 , Jul 26, 1999
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                  Responding to the message of <v04210103b3c28ba7aeb4@[24.2.204.60]>
                  from mythsoc@onelist.com:
                  >
                  > From: Steve Schaper <sschaper@...>
                  [. . . .]
                  > BTW, I have only received one copy of Mythlore since re-upping last
                  > fall. Ought that to be?
                  >
                  > --Steve

                  Well, I wouldn't have put it quite the way that Berni did, and I will observe
                  that Glen managed 4 issues per year for some years, however, the next issue has
                  been "95%-complete" since last November. I don't think we're going to see it at
                  Mythcon. The Council is expected to proceed with an issue maybe this fall,
                  under the new editor, Ted Sherman. IF he is elected in the fall election, we
                  expect to see a return to regular Mythlores within a year or so. I would guess
                  that we'll see at least a couple of issues next year, and possibly as many as
                  4--unless it remains a tri-quarterly, in which case, 3 would be the maximum.
                  Unless Glen's final issue comes out somewhere during that year....

                  In the meantime, please note that Mythprint comes out every month, usually in
                  advance of the cover month, like clockwork, ever since Ellie Farrell took
                  over--hm, was it 3 years ago, now?

                  David Lenander
                  293 Selby Ave. work: (612)626-3375
                  St. Paul, MN 55102-1811 home: (651)292-8887
                  fax: (612)626-2454
                  e-mail: d-lena@...

                  Bree Moot 4/Mythcon XXX web-page:
                  http://www.tc.umn.edu/nlhome/m391/d-lena/BreeMoot.html
                • WendellWag@xxx.xxx
                  In a message dated 7/26/99 8:53:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... O.K., there s several problems here. West Midlands is a county in England, and it consists
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jul 26, 1999
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                    In a message dated 7/26/99 8:53:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                    sschaper@... writes:

                    > I was just thinking about how many areas were roughly modeled on
                    > areas on England, esp., if I remember correctly, the West Midlands.
                    > There are certain types of hills or 'down's that they have in England.
                    > I'm not sure they have them anywhere else.

                    O.K., there's several problems here. "West Midlands" is a county in England,
                    and it consists of Birmingham and its suburbs. There's nothing wrong with
                    Birmingham (after all, it's where Tolkien lived from age 4 to age 18), but
                    there's little there that looks like Middle Earth. The term "downs" is
                    usually applied not so much to the Midlands as to Southeast England. It
                    means treeless, undulating chalk uplands of the sort used for pasture. I
                    don't know if there is anything comparable to it in New Zealand. Is anyone
                    here an expert on New Zealand geography?

                    There's some very pretty patchwork-quilt sorts of landscape (like some of
                    Tolkien's own illustrations of his books) in the Midlands of England. You'd
                    have to point your camera carefully to avoid any signs of modernity, but in a
                    sense it looks like Middle Earth, I guess.

                    Wendell Wagner
                  • THEODORE SHERMAN
                    ... West Midlands is also a dialect area of Middle English--one of JRRT s many areas of expertise--that is comprised of the western half of the Midlands
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jul 27, 1999
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                      WendellWag@... wrote:
                      >
                      > From: WendellWag@...
                      >
                      >
                      > O.K., there's several problems here. "West Midlands" is a county in England,
                      > and it consists of Birmingham and its suburbs. There's nothing wrong with
                      > Birmingham (after all, it's where Tolkien lived from age 4 to age 18), but
                      > there's little there that looks like Middle Earth. The term "downs" is
                      > usually applied not so much to the Midlands as to Southeast England.


                      West Midlands is also a dialect area of Middle English--one of JRRT's
                      many areas of expertise--that is comprised of the western half of the
                      Midlands (middle) area of England. I can be more precise if you like. I
                      think the previous writer, to whom Wendell was responding, was using
                      West Midlands more of as a geographical area rather than a specific
                      county.

                      Yours,

                      Ted Sherman
                    • Wayne G. Hammond
                      ... I ve heard of various fans offering their services to the project, but I don t know of any who have been hired for it. As for Christopher, as far as I ve
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jul 27, 1999
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                        At 08:52 PM 7/26/99 -0400, WendellWag@... wrote:

                        >> I don't suppose anyone from Mythsoc is advising on this project?
                        >
                        >No, nor anyone from the (British) Tolkien Society, which would be an even
                        >more obvious choice. Apparently Peter Jackson has talked with Christopher
                        >Tolkien.

                        I've heard of various fans offering their services to the project, but I
                        don't know of any who have been hired for it. As for Christopher, as far as
                        I've heard, he has not talked with the producers and is staying as far from
                        the production as he possibly can.

                        Wayne Hammond
                      • WendellWag@aol.com
                        ... It would seem that if one were to make a movie about place X, the obvious place to film it is in X. But that s not always the case. For instance, if one
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jul 29, 1999
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                          I just wanted to further defend my saying:

                          > Actually, it makes sense to film in New Zealand.

                          It would seem that if one were to make a movie about place X, the obvious
                          place to film it is in X. But that's not always the case. For instance, if
                          one wants to make a film about turn-of-the-century New York, with streets
                          crowded with immigrants and pushcarts, the best place to film it is not New
                          York, but (I'm told) Montreal, which has some streets that look like
                          turn-of-the-century New York.

                          If it's true that Tolkien based some scenes from _The Lord of the Rings_ on
                          places near where he grew up in Birmingham, it's also true that there's no
                          longer anything there that looks Middle-Earthish to my eyes. Birmingham
                          looks to me very much like a modern city. If I were to compare it to any
                          American city, it would be Baltimore. It's not that there's any particular
                          building or anything in the skyline of the two cities that looks particularly
                          alike, but they are of approximately the same size and both grew up in the
                          nineteenth century and were greatly built upon in the twentieth century.
                          They both seem to me to be generic bland big cities.

                          If we are to look further at the counties that constitute the western half of
                          the Midlands area, there are little pieces that would be acceptable terrain
                          for the Shire, assuming you do a little pruning of modern signs and such. I
                          think, though, that you would have a lot of trouble finding enough open space
                          even for scenes in the Shire.

                          On the other hand, I've been told that there are many different types of
                          scenery in New Zealand, and most of it hasn't been turned into a cliche by
                          overfilming (the way, say, that Monument Valley has been turned into a cliche
                          by Westerns). Peter Jackson has to film almost 9 hours of film set in a
                          large variety of kinds of scenery. Perhaps he has decided that wandering
                          around the world finding precisely the correct look for each scene would be
                          too expensive. Perhaps he is correct in thinking that he can find the
                          correct look just in New Zealand.

                          Wendell Wagner
                        • WendellWag@xxx.xxx
                          In reply to my writing ... don t ... Oops, I guess I shouldn t have believed the gossip I read about the making of the film. Wendell Wagner
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jul 29, 1999
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                            In reply to my writing

                            > Apparently Peter Jackson has talked with Christopher Tolkien.

                            Wayne Hammond wrote:

                            > I've heard of various fans offering their services to the project, but I
                            don't
                            > know of any who have been hired for it. As for Christopher, as far as I've
                            > heard, he has not talked with the producers and is staying as far from
                            > the production as he possibly can.

                            Oops, I guess I shouldn't have believed the gossip I read about the making of
                            the film.

                            Wendell Wagner
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