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Re: [mythsoc] MBTI (was LotR marketing)

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  • Trudy Shaw
    ... From: NiffMarie@cs.com To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 4:08 PM Subject: Re: [mythsoc] LotR marketing As a psychology major, and
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 2, 2001
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: NiffMarie@...
      To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 4:08 PM
      Subject: Re: [mythsoc] LotR marketing


      As a psychology major, and one who has been interested in the Meyers-Brigg
      Temperament Indicator (MBTI) for sometime, do you all know of any sites that
      list the types of the LotR characters? I tried looking, but found little.

      --Niff, infj
      NiffMarie@...
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


      Myself and a few online friends actually tried to do this with Sam and Frodo awhile back. It _has_ been awhile, but IIRC, Sam came out as an ESFJ and Frodo as an INF with a nearly equal balance between his P and J (after arguing about this last point, we decided it might be the type of personality needed for the quest--someone who could both plan and act--and it does happen in "real life" that someone occasionally comes out with a close balance in one aspect). So, of course, the J's and the P's both claimed him (no allusion to film dialogue of warrior elf princess intended).

      Their I/E and N/S differences seem to be fairly clear-cut: Frodo works through decisions interiorly--with the extreme of that seen at the end of FotR when he decides to leave alone without talking it over with _anyone_, while Sam comes to decisions by talking them out (with himself, if there's no one else handy); Frodo has a tendency to see things intuitively without always being conscious of the individual parts of the process, while Sam is more concrete (and possibly more observant of his physical surroundings?) and consciously goes through the steps leading to any conclusion.

      We came to no agreement regarding the sanity or lack thereof demonstrated by giving psychological assessments to fictional characters.

      --Trudy, also an INFJ (but _almost_ evenly balanced between F and T)

      P.S. Interesting that INFJ's are supposed to be less than 1% of the population, but I keep running into "us" quite regularly--most commonly in church work and in Tolkien-related circumstances.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • NiffMarie@cs.com
      In a message dated 12/2/2001 10:10:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, tgshaw@earthlink.net writes: ... _ ... while ... That s very cool.
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 2, 2001
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        In a message dated 12/2/2001 10:10:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,
        tgshaw@... writes:

        <snipping for brevity>
        > Their I/E and N/S differences seem to be fairly clear-cut:
        > Frodo works through decisions interiorly--with the extreme of that seen at
        > the end of FotR when he decides to leave alone without talking it over with
        _
        > anyone_, while Sam comes to decisions by talking them out (with himself, if
        > there's no one else handy); Frodo has a tendency to see things intuitively
        > without always being conscious of the individual parts of the process,
        while
        > Sam is more concrete (and possibly more observant of his physical
        > surroundings?) and consciously goes through the steps leading to any
        > conclusion.

        That's very cool. Thanks for sharing!!!
        >
        > We came to no agreement regarding the sanity or lack thereof
        > demonstrated by giving psychological assessments to fictional characters.&
        > nbsp;

        Personally, I think it is useful in that it helps illustrate types in a
        different setting. I may not know many ENTPs, for instance, but can see how
        they might be if I knew of fictional characters with that type.

        'Sides, it's fun!!!

        Any guesses on the types of Aragorn, Galadriel, Legolas, Gimli, Eowyn, Arwen,
        and Gandalf?

        Would Galadriel and Legolas be NFs of some sort?
        >
        > --Trudy, also an INFJ (but _almost_ evenly balanced between F and T)

        Me too. When it comes down to it I'm INFJ, but I have *a lot* of T
        tendencies, and some believe I'm actually ISTJ :-)
        >
        > P.S. Interesting that INFJ's are supposed to be less than 1% of the
        > population, but I keep running into "us" quite regularly--most
        > commonly in church work and in Tolkien-related circumstances.

        I actually haven't met many of us. There's one on an MBTI list to which I
        subscribe, one on another list, and I think maybe, IRL, I've met two others.

        --Niff, infj
        NiffMarie@...
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        "Anyone who has a library and a garden wants for nothing."
        Cicero
      • dianejoy@earthlink.net
        ... From: Trudy Shaw tgshaw@earthlink.net Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 21:12:27 -0600 To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [mythsoc] MBTI (was LotR marketing)
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 3, 2001
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          Original Message:
          -----------------
          From: Trudy Shaw tgshaw@...
          Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 21:12:27 -0600
          To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [mythsoc] MBTI (was LotR marketing)

          << Myself and a few online friends actually tried to do this with Sam and Frodo awhile back. It _has_ been awhile, but IIRC, Sam came out as an ESFJ and Frodo as an INF with a nearly equal balance between his P and J (after arguing about this last point, we decided it might be the type of personality needed for the quest--someone who could both plan and act--and it does happen in "real life" that someone occasionally comes out with a close balance in one aspect). So, of course, the J's and the P's both claimed him (no allusion to film dialogue of warrior elf princess intended).>>

          I sometimes use the MBTI on a character I'm working on to try to figure out their deeper levels. Perhaps that's because I'm an INFP one point higher on I rather than E, and a couple of points higher on P than J.)

          Their I/E and N/S differences seem to be fairly clear-cut: Frodo works through decisions interiorly--with the extreme of that seen at the end of FotR when he decides to leave alone without talking it over with _anyone_, while Sam comes to decisions by talking them out (with himself, if there's no one else handy); Frodo has a tendency to see things intuitively without always being conscious of the individual parts of the process, while Sam is more concrete (and possibly more observant of his physical surroundings?) and consciously goes through the steps leading to any conclusion.

          We came to no agreement regarding the sanity or lack thereof demonstrated by giving psychological assessments to fictional characters.

          See above.

          --Trudy, also an INFJ (but _almost_ evenly balanced between F and T)

          My crib on the MBTI (*Please Understand Me*) says that most women are Fs rather than Ts; I won't get into whether this is innate or cultural.

          << P.S. Interesting that INFJ's are supposed to be less than 1% of the population, but I keep running into "us" quite regularly--most commonly in church work and in Tolkien-related circumstances. >>

          I've run into a lot of INFPs and INFJs, which means either that odd ducks tend to congregate, perhaps choose the same profession (and so we tend to meet that type) or we're not as rare as the test proposes. Be interesting to find out if there's a preponderance of a type in Tolkien fandom. ---djb




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        • Lisa Deutsch Harrigan
          Hi There - OK, you made me drag it out, I too am INFP. The N can switch to S in a moment (yes, I m really bipolar, depending on my mood I m either strong N or
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 3, 2001
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            Hi There -

            OK, you made me drag it out, I too am INFP. The N can switch to S in a moment (yes, I'm really bipolar, depending on my mood I'm either strong N or strong S, I can to some extent control it). And the F can do the same to T. You should see me with Logic puzzles, and my skill set is strongly male (good mechanical and math, lousy at language). I can control that less. The more tired I am the more I go to Feeling, which figures.

            According to the person who gave me several MBTI, I'm not that unusual in actually being able to flip according to mood. The trick is to turn it into a strength.

            INFP makes sense for most of us though. The book I have says INFPs tend to be loners who are into fantasy. Yep, that defines a lot of us here.

            Mythically yours,

            Lisa
          • NiffMarie@cs.com
            In a message dated 12/3/2001 1:53:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... or ... (good ... a ... That is *fascinating*. I ve never heard that concept, though it makes
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 3, 2001
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              In a message dated 12/3/2001 1:53:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
              lisa@... writes:

              > OK, you made me drag it out, I too am INFP. The N can switch to S in a
              > moment (yes, I'm really bipolar, depending on my mood I'm either strong N
              or
              > strong S, I can to some extent control it). And the F can do the same to T.
              > You should see me with Logic puzzles, and my skill set is strongly male
              (good
              > mechanical and math, lousy at language). I can control that less. The more
              > tired I am the more I go to Feeling, which figures.
              >
              > According to the person who gave me several MBTI, I'm not that unusual in
              > actually being able to flip according to mood. The trick is to turn it into
              a
              > strength.

              That is *fascinating*. I've never heard that concept, though it makes sense!
              >
              > INFP makes sense for most of us though. The book I have says INFPs tend to
              > be loners who are into fantasy. Yep, that defines a lot of us here.

              Several weeks (or maybe months?) ago I think there was a thread re: surviving
              as a middle-of-the-road Christian. I, too, am fairly liberal in my beliefs
              (non-literalist, evolutionist, etc.) however I am *very* conservative
              otherwise. Needless to say, I've gotten *a lot* of flack for my choice of
              beliefs. It struck me as interesting that there are at least several INFs
              here, and the thought that perhaps the willingness to hold a divergent view
              (AND live with the consequences of those choices ;-) may be an N thing? Is
              that the case, in y'all's experience?

              If I am off-topic, please tell me. I do not wish to disrupt or cause offense
              :-)

              --Niff, infj
              NiffMarie@...
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              "Anyone who has a library and a garden wants for nothing."
              Cicero
            • Christine Howlett
              Another INFJ here. Very strong I, weak J. Which is good because I live with a P, and no real J should try that. Oddly enough though, I always identify
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 3, 2001
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                Another INFJ here. Very strong I, weak J. Which is good because I live
                with a P, and no 'real' J should try that. Oddly enough though, I always
                identify with the unheroic Sam bless him.

                Christine
                -----Original Message-----
                From: NiffMarie@... <NiffMarie@...>
                To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com <mythsoc@yahoogroups.com>
                Date: Sunday, December 02, 2001 11:12 PM
                Subject: Re: [mythsoc] MBTI (was LotR marketing)


                >In a message dated 12/2/2001 10:10:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                >tgshaw@... writes:
                >
                ><snipping for brevity>
                >> Their I/E and N/S differences seem to be fairly clear-cut:
                >> Frodo works through decisions interiorly--with the extreme of that seen
                at
                >> the end of FotR when he decides to leave alone without talking it over
                with
                >_
                >> anyone_, while Sam comes to decisions by talking them out (with himself,
                if
                >> there's no one else handy); Frodo has a tendency to see things
                intuitively
                >> without always being conscious of the individual parts of the process,
                >while
                >> Sam is more concrete (and possibly more observant of his physical
                >> surroundings?) and consciously goes through the steps leading to any
                >> conclusion.
                >
                >That's very cool. Thanks for sharing!!!
                >>
                >> We came to no agreement regarding the sanity or lack thereof
                >> demonstrated by giving psychological assessments to fictional
                characters.&
                >> nbsp;
                >
                >Personally, I think it is useful in that it helps illustrate types in a
                >different setting. I may not know many ENTPs, for instance, but can see how
                >they might be if I knew of fictional characters with that type.
                >
                >'Sides, it's fun!!!
                >
                >Any guesses on the types of Aragorn, Galadriel, Legolas, Gimli, Eowyn,
                Arwen,
                >and Gandalf?
                >
                >Would Galadriel and Legolas be NFs of some sort?
                >>
                >> --Trudy, also an INFJ (but _almost_ evenly balanced between F and T)
                >
                >Me too. When it comes down to it I'm INFJ, but I have *a lot* of T
                >tendencies, and some believe I'm actually ISTJ :-)
                >>
                >> P.S. Interesting that INFJ's are supposed to be less than 1% of the
                >> population, but I keep running into "us" quite regularly--most
                >> commonly in church work and in Tolkien-related circumstances.
                >
                >I actually haven't met many of us. There's one on an MBTI list to which I
                >subscribe, one on another list, and I think maybe, IRL, I've met two
                others.
                >
                >--Niff, infj
                >NiffMarie@...
                >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                >"Anyone who has a library and a garden wants for nothing."
                >Cicero
                >
                >
                >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                >
                >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
              • Christine Howlett
                And my roommate who is heavily into fantasy is an INFP, who also switchhits as an S. Sometimes I think jobs encourage that kind of change - as a paramedic she
                Message 7 of 10 , Dec 3, 2001
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                  And my roommate who is heavily into fantasy is an INFP, who also switchhits
                  as an S. Sometimes I think jobs encourage that kind of change - as a
                  paramedic she needs to be strongly sensory. Both of us are stubbornly
                  attached to our own very liberal viewpoints and devil take the hindmost. I
                  thought that was sort of New England kind of thing actually.
                  Christine
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: NiffMarie@... <NiffMarie@...>
                  To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com <mythsoc@yahoogroups.com>
                  Date: Monday, December 03, 2001 2:13 PM
                  Subject: Re: [mythsoc] MBTI (was LotR marketing)


                  >In a message dated 12/3/2001 1:53:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                  >lisa@... writes:
                  >
                  >> OK, you made me drag it out, I too am INFP. The N can switch to S in a
                  >> moment (yes, I'm really bipolar, depending on my mood I'm either strong N
                  >or
                  >> strong S, I can to some extent control it). And the F can do the same to
                  T.
                  >> You should see me with Logic puzzles, and my skill set is strongly male
                  >(good
                  >> mechanical and math, lousy at language). I can control that less. The
                  more
                  >> tired I am the more I go to Feeling, which figures.
                  >>
                  >> According to the person who gave me several MBTI, I'm not that unusual
                  in
                  >> actually being able to flip according to mood. The trick is to turn it
                  into
                  >a
                  >> strength.
                  >
                  >That is *fascinating*. I've never heard that concept, though it makes
                  sense!
                  >>
                  >> INFP makes sense for most of us though. The book I have says INFPs tend
                  to
                  >> be loners who are into fantasy. Yep, that defines a lot of us here.
                  >
                  >Several weeks (or maybe months?) ago I think there was a thread re:
                  surviving
                  >as a middle-of-the-road Christian. I, too, am fairly liberal in my beliefs
                  >(non-literalist, evolutionist, etc.) however I am *very* conservative
                  >otherwise. Needless to say, I've gotten *a lot* of flack for my choice of
                  >beliefs. It struck me as interesting that there are at least several INFs
                  >here, and the thought that perhaps the willingness to hold a divergent view
                  >(AND live with the consequences of those choices ;-) may be an N thing? Is
                  >that the case, in y'all's experience?
                  >
                  >If I am off-topic, please tell me. I do not wish to disrupt or cause
                  offense
                  >:-)
                  >
                  >--Niff, infj
                  >NiffMarie@...
                  >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  >"Anyone who has a library and a garden wants for nothing."
                  >Cicero
                  >
                  >
                  >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                  >
                  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                • Avie
                  ... Arwen, ... I was recently on a leadership camp where I encountered Myers-Briggs for the first time. Some of the information supplied to us following the
                  Message 8 of 10 , Dec 3, 2001
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                    At 23:11 2/12/01 EST, Niff wrote:
                    >Any guesses on the types of Aragorn, Galadriel, Legolas, Gimli, Eowyn,
                    Arwen,
                    >and Gandalf?
                    >

                    I was recently on a leadership camp where I encountered Myers-Briggs for
                    the first time. Some of the information supplied to us following the
                    testing included famous people and literary characters that shared each
                    person's particular type. Gandalf the Grey was listed as sharing my MBTI -
                    INTJ... which makes me wonder if this changes somewhat after he becomes
                    Gandalf the White.

                    Avie
                    - an INTJ who isn't informed enough yet to offer a reliable analysis
                  • Trudy Shaw
                    ... From: dianejoy@earthlink.net To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 9:45 AM Subject: RE: [mythsoc] MBTI (was LotR marketing)
                    Message 9 of 10 , Dec 3, 2001
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                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: dianejoy@...
                      To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 9:45 AM
                      Subject: RE: [mythsoc] MBTI (was LotR marketing)


                      <<My crib on the MBTI (*Please Understand Me*) says that most women are Fs rather than Ts; I won't get into whether this is innate or cultural.

                      When I took the "full" test for the first time (as opposed to the shortened one we used in a class), the person administering it postulated that I might have been a "natural" F, but because I'd studied science my T was stronger than it would have been otherwise--only of interest here because this person was pretty well trained in the MBTI and she did think that training, etc., is able to influence type.

                      <<I've run into a lot of INFPs and INFJs, which means either that odd ducks tend to congregate, perhaps choose the same profession (and so we tend to meet that type) or we're not as rare as the test proposes. Be interesting to find out if there's a preponderance of a type in Tolkien fandom. ---djb

                      According to _Please Understand Me_, the "ideal" profession for an INFJ is writing, and the second best (because it's a struggle if the "I" is too strong) is ministry. Those two areas do seem to be where I run into the most. I certainly can't speak for the entire realm of Tolkien fandom, but among the half-dozen or so of us who worked on this I think there was one "E" and the others were about evenly divided between INFJ and INFP. I can see how INFP's might be attracted to fantasy (another email--sorry, I don't remember whose), but maybe it takes a "J" to get a book written (either to write it, or to nag--oops, I mean encourage--the writer).
                      --Trudy


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                    • Janet Croft
                      I ve run into a lot of INFPs and INFJs, which means either that odd ducks tend to congregate, perhaps choose the same profession (and so we tend to meet that
                      Message 10 of 10 , Dec 4, 2001
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                        "I've run into a lot of INFPs and INFJs, which means either that odd ducks
                        tend to congregate, perhaps choose the same profession (and so we tend to
                        meet that type) or we're not as rare as the test proposes. Be interesting to
                        find out if there's a preponderance of a type in Tolkien fandom. ---djb"

                        Sounds like a very interesting paper idea -- and maybe do a comparison to
                        other fan groups as well, like Star Wars fans, and see what kind of overlap
                        you get!

                        Janet




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