Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

LOTR review

Expand Messages
  • Joan Marie Verba
    ... He doesn t look anything close to what I imagine Aragron to look. But I can make allowances. Joan ****************************************** Joan Marie
    Message 1 of 18 , Dec 2, 2001
    • 0 Attachment
      Diamond Proudbrook wrote:

      > Am I the only one who thinks that Viggo Mortensen looks EXACTLY like Aragorn
      > ought to look?

      He doesn't look anything close to what I imagine Aragron to look. But I
      can make allowances.

      Joan

      ******************************************
      Joan Marie Verba
      verba001@...
      http://www.sff.net/people/Joan.Marie.Verba
    • Janet Croft
      I wasn t sure at first, but the more I see the actors, the more the pictures in my mind start to look like them. Except Gimli. I love the concept of John
      Message 2 of 18 , Dec 4, 2001
      • 0 Attachment
        I wasn't sure at first, but the more I see the actors, the more the pictures
        in my mind start to look like them. Except Gimli. I love the concept of
        John Rhys-Davies as Gimli, but somhow the few clips and pictures I've seen
        haven't "clicked" for me.

        Janet
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Joan Marie Verba [mailto:verba001@...]
        Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 8:45 PM
        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [mythsoc] LOTR review


        Diamond Proudbrook wrote:

        > Am I the only one who thinks that Viggo Mortensen looks EXACTLY like
        Aragorn
        > ought to look?

        He doesn't look anything close to what I imagine Aragron to look. But I
        can make allowances.

        Joan

        ******************************************
        Joan Marie Verba
        verba001@...
        http://www.sff.net/people/Joan.Marie.Verba

        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        ADVERTISEMENT




        The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org

        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Grace E. Funk
        Odd reviews do pop up in odd places. In The Anglican Digest, Whitsuntide 2002, pp37-38, is an item titled We See Evil for What It Is . Having described LOTR
        Message 3 of 18 , May 30, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          Odd reviews do pop up in odd places. In The Anglican Digest, Whitsuntide
          2002, pp37-38, is an item titled "We See Evil for What It Is". Having
          described LOTR (the film) as "a straightforward tale of straightforward
          good and evil", the author, one William Murchison, proceeds to take off
          on his own agenda, which is to prove that Americans have been driven
          away from non-judgmental ambivalence. Ambivance was "modern" and
          promoted by "our Intellectual Betters", he says. Americans now recognize
          that evil is personified in Osama bin Laden, who ought to be given
          royalties for contributing to the popularaity of LOTR.
          Now there's a stretch! The article was copied from the Dallas Morning
          News.

          --
          Grace E. Funk R.R. #1, Lumby, B.C. V0E 2G0 Phone (250)547-6333
        • jamcconney@aol.com
          In a message dated 5/30/2002 1:50:22 PM Central Daylight Time, ... My word!--as a good card-carrying Episcopalian, I really must track this one down. Jamaq
          Message 4 of 18 , May 30, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            In a message dated 5/30/2002 1:50:22 PM Central Daylight Time,
            gfunk@... writes:


            > Odd reviews do pop up in odd places. In The Anglican Digest, Whitsuntide
            > 2002, pp37-38, is an item titled "We See Evil for What It Is". Having
            > described LOTR (the film) as "a straightforward tale of straightforward
            > good and evil", the author, one William Murchison, proceeds to take off
            > on his own agenda, which is to prove that Americans have been driven
            > away from non-judgmental ambivalence. Ambivance was "modern" and
            > promoted by "our Intellectual Betters", he says. Americans now recognize
            > that evil is personified in Osama bin Laden, who ought to be given
            > royalties for contributing to the popularaity of LOTR.
            > Now there's a stretch! The article was copied from the Dallas Morning
            > News.
            >

            My word!--as a good card-carrying Episcopalian, I really must track this one
            down.
            Jamaq


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • dianejoy@earthlink.net
            ... From: Grace E. Funk gfunk@junction.net Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 12:03:41 -0700 To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Subject: [mythsoc] LOTR review
            Message 5 of 18 , May 31, 2002
            • 0 Attachment
              Original Message:
              -----------------
              From: Grace E. Funk gfunk@...
              Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 12:03:41 -0700
              To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [mythsoc] LOTR review


              << Odd reviews do pop up in odd places. In The Anglican Digest, Whitsuntide
              2002, pp37-38, is an item titled "We See Evil for What It Is". Having
              described LOTR (the film) as "a straightforward tale of straightforward
              good and evil", the author, one William Murchison, proceeds to take off
              on his own agenda, which is to prove that Americans have been driven
              away from non-judgmental ambivalence. Ambivalence was "modern" and
              promoted by "our Intellectual Betters", he says. >>

              So who are the stupid people who listened to these "intellectual betters" and followed like sheep? Some perhaps didn't know what was happening to their minds or consciences, but others just brushed it away as too impractical, too abstract, having no relationship to themselves. So when their kids come up with "that's your truth," they gurgle and look helpless

              << Americans now recognize that evil is personified in Osama bin Laden, who ought to be given royalties for contributing to the popularaity of LOTR. >>

              Osame bin Laden, sharing JRRT's royalties? Some cirtics are too clever for their own good. And this was in an *Anglican* magazine? I know it's a joke, but I find irony like that very unfunny these days. For shame! ---djb



              --
              Grace E. Funk R.R. #1, Lumby, B.C. V0E 2G0 Phone (250)547-6333




              The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org

              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


              --------------------------------------------------------------------
              mail2web - Check your email from the web at
              http://mail2web.com/ .
            • Randall Eicher
              ... Whitsuntide ... and followed like sheep? Some perhaps didn t know what was happening to their minds or consciences, but others just brushed it away as too
              Message 6 of 18 , May 31, 2002
              • 0 Attachment
                > << Odd reviews do pop up in odd places. In The Anglican Digest,
                Whitsuntide
                > 2002, pp37-38, is an item titled "We See Evil for What It Is". Having
                > described LOTR (the film) as "a straightforward tale of straightforward
                > good and evil", the author, one William Murchison, proceeds to take off
                > on his own agenda, which is to prove that Americans have been driven
                > away from non-judgmental ambivalence. Ambivalence was "modern" and
                > promoted by "our Intellectual Betters", he says. >>
                >
                > So who are the stupid people who listened to these "intellectual betters"
                and followed like sheep? Some perhaps didn't know what was happening to
                their minds or consciences, but others just brushed it away as too
                impractical, too abstract, having no relationship to themselves. So when
                their kids come up with "that's your truth," they gurgle and look helpless
                >
                > << Americans now recognize that evil is personified in Osama bin Laden,
                who ought to be given royalties for contributing to the popularaity of LOTR.
                >>
                >
                > Osame bin Laden, sharing JRRT's royalties? Some cirtics are too clever
                for their own good. And this was in an *Anglican* magazine? I know it's a
                joke, but I find irony like that very unfunny these days. For
                hame! ---djb
                >

                As a resident of Dallas I get to see Mr. Murchison's rantings on the
                editorial page and can provide a modicum of insight into his viewpoint. He
                is an ultra-conservative fundamentalist Christian who is always ranting on
                about how American has gotten away from "good, solid" Christian values and
                proceeds to condemn everyone and everything that does not fit in his
                extremely narrow view.

                He is of the opinion that the world would be better off blindly following
                whatever they are told by their Church leaders rather questioning and
                thinking for themselves.

                Randall Eicher
              • Christine Howlett
                Sorry, I m born American, but I have real problems selecting people to personify evil. It seems like there are too durn many people doing that to justify
                Message 7 of 18 , Jun 2, 2002
                • 0 Attachment
                  Sorry, I'm born American, but I have real problems selecting people to
                  personify evil. It seems like there are too durn many people doing that to
                  justify their prejudices and then their bloodshed. I am willing to say that
                  Osama's acts are morally indefensible on any grounds, even if the US had
                  actually done all the evil that he accuses us of. Himself? He's one sick
                  puppy. Evil? That's up to God.
                  Score one for ambivalence.
                  Christine

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Grace E. Funk" <gfunk@...>
                  To: <mythsoc@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 3:03 PM
                  Subject: [mythsoc] LOTR review


                  > Odd reviews do pop up in odd places. In The Anglican Digest, Whitsuntide
                  > 2002, pp37-38, is an item titled "We See Evil for What It Is". Having
                  > described LOTR (the film) as "a straightforward tale of straightforward
                  > good and evil", the author, one William Murchison, proceeds to take off
                  > on his own agenda, which is to prove that Americans have been driven
                  > away from non-judgmental ambivalence. Ambivance was "modern" and
                  > promoted by "our Intellectual Betters", he says. Americans now recognize
                  > that evil is personified in Osama bin Laden, who ought to be given
                  > royalties for contributing to the popularaity of LOTR.
                  > Now there's a stretch! The article was copied from the Dallas Morning
                  > News.
                  >
                  > --
                  > Grace E. Funk R.R. #1, Lumby, B.C. V0E 2G0 Phone (250)547-6333
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Pauline J. Alama
                  I m with Ms. Howlett. Judge not lest ye be judged, or as Gandalf says, even the very wise do not know all ends. pauline Pauline J. Alama THE EYE OF NIGHT
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jun 3, 2002
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I'm with Ms. Howlett. Judge not lest ye be judged, or as Gandalf says, even the very wise do not know all ends.

                    pauline

                    Pauline J. Alama
                    THE EYE OF NIGHT
                    (Bantam Spectra, July 2002)


                    --- On Sun 06/02, Christine Howlett wrote:
                    From: Christine Howlett [mailto: chowlett@...]
                    To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Sun 06/02
                    Subject: Re: [mythsoc] LOTR review

                    > Sorry, I'm born American, but I have real problems selecting people to
                    > personify evil. It seems like there are too durn many people doing that
                    > to
                    > justify their prejudices and then their bloodshed. I am willing to say
                    > that
                    > Osama's acts are morally indefensible on any grounds, even if the US had
                    > actually done all the evil that he accuses us of. Himself? He's one
                    > sick
                    > puppy. Evil? That's up to God.
                    > Score one for ambivalence.
                    > Christine
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "Grace E. Funk"
                    > To:
                    > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 3:03 PM
                    > Subject: [mythsoc] LOTR review
                    >
                    >
                    > > Odd reviews do pop up in odd places. In The Anglican Digest,
                    > Whitsuntide
                    > > 2002, pp37-38, is an item titled "We See Evil for What It
                    > Is". Having
                    > > described LOTR (the film) as "a straightforward tale of
                    > straightforward
                    > > good and evil", the author, one William Murchison, proceeds to
                    > take off
                    > > on his own agenda, which is to prove that Americans have been driven
                    > > away from non-judgmental ambivalence. Ambivance was
                    > "modern" and
                    > > promoted by "our Intellectual Betters", he says. Americans
                    > now recognize
                    > > that evil is personified in Osama bin Laden, who ought to be given
                    > > royalties for contributing to the popularaity of LOTR.
                    > > Now there's a stretch! The article was copied from the Dallas
                    > Morning
                    > > News.
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > > Grace E. Funk R.R. #1, Lumby, B.C. V0E 2G0 Phone (250)547-6333
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                    > >
                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > ---------------------~-->
                    > Kwick Pick opens locked car doors,
                    > front doors, drawers, briefcases,
                    > padlocks, and more. On sale now!
                    > http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/DtIolB/TM
                    > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
                    >
                    > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    ------------------------------------------------
                    Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
                    The most personalized portal on the Web!


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Carl F. Hostetter
                    That is certainly not what judge not ... means. As moral creatures with conscience and Free will, we are not only allowed but required to discern the
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jun 3, 2002
                    • 0 Attachment
                      That is certainly not what "judge not ..." means. As moral creatures with
                      conscience and Free will, we are not only allowed but required to discern
                      the difference between good and evil. (I'm speaking both of the races of
                      Middle-earth and our own world.) What we cannot do is determine another's
                      fate. That is left to God/Eru. Osama bin Laden is evil. Sauron was evil. Is
                      either iredeemable to God/Eru? _That_ is not for us to decide.


                      |======================================================================|
                      | Carl F. Hostetter Aelfwine@... http://www.elvish.org |
                      | |
                      | ho bios brachys, he de techne makre. |
                      | Ars longa, vita brevis. |
                      | The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne. |
                      | "I wish life was not so short," he thought. "Languages take |
                      | such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about." |
                      |======================================================================|

                      --------------------------

                      On 6/3/02 7:53 AM, "Pauline J. Alama" <PJAlama@...> wrote:

                      > I'm with Ms. Howlett. Judge not lest ye be judged, or as Gandalf says, even
                      > the very wise do not know all ends.
                      >
                      > pauline
                      >
                      > Pauline J. Alama
                      > THE EYE OF NIGHT
                      > (Bantam Spectra, July 2002)
                      >
                      >
                      > --- On Sun 06/02, Christine Howlett wrote:
                      > From: Christine Howlett [mailto: chowlett@...]
                      > To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                      > Date: Sun 06/02
                      > Subject: Re: [mythsoc] LOTR review
                      >
                      >> Sorry, I'm born American, but I have real problems selecting people to
                      >> personify evil. It seems like there are too durn many people doing that
                      >> to
                      >> justify their prejudices and then their bloodshed. I am willing to say
                      >> that
                      >> Osama's acts are morally indefensible on any grounds, even if the US had
                      >> actually done all the evil that he accuses us of. Himself? He's one
                      >> sick
                      >> puppy. Evil? That's up to God.
                      >> Score one for ambivalence.
                      >> Christine
                    • trudygshaw
                      What we can t do (literally--can t) is get inside another person s being and judge his or her motivation, state of mind, and all the other things that go into
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jun 3, 2002
                      • 0 Attachment
                        What we can't do (literally--can't) is get inside another person's being and judge his or her motivation, state of mind, and all the other things that go into the choice of an action, good or bad. We can do that only for ourselves, and even there (IMHO) only to a limited degree. One of the many reasons I'm glad I'm not God--I gratefully leave the task to her.

                        Free will gives us the responsibility to discern between good and evil (or choose from more than one good) in our own decisions, including how we decide to respond to another's evil actions.

                        --Trudy


                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Carl F. Hostetter
                        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 8:05 AM
                        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] LOTR review


                        That is certainly not what "judge not ..." means. As moral creatures with
                        conscience and Free will, we are not only allowed but required to discern
                        the difference between good and evil. (I'm speaking both of the races of
                        Middle-earth and our own world.) What we cannot do is determine another's
                        fate. That is left to God/Eru. Osama bin Laden is evil. Sauron was evil. Is
                        either iredeemable to God/Eru? _That_ is not for us to decide.


                        |======================================================================|
                        | Carl F. Hostetter Aelfwine@... http://www.elvish.org |
                        | |
                        | ho bios brachys, he de techne makre. |
                        | Ars longa, vita brevis. |
                        | The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne. |
                        | "I wish life was not so short," he thought. "Languages take |
                        | such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about." |
                        |======================================================================|

                        --------------------------

                        On 6/3/02 7:53 AM, "Pauline J. Alama" <PJAlama@...> wrote:

                        > I'm with Ms. Howlett. Judge not lest ye be judged, or as Gandalf says, even
                        > the very wise do not know all ends.
                        >
                        > pauline
                        >
                        > Pauline J. Alama
                        > THE EYE OF NIGHT
                        > (Bantam Spectra, July 2002)
                        >
                        >
                        > --- On Sun 06/02, Christine Howlett wrote:
                        > From: Christine Howlett [mailto: chowlett@...]
                        > To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                        > Date: Sun 06/02
                        > Subject: Re: [mythsoc] LOTR review
                        >
                        >> Sorry, I'm born American, but I have real problems selecting people to
                        >> personify evil. It seems like there are too durn many people doing that
                        >> to
                        >> justify their prejudices and then their bloodshed. I am willing to say
                        >> that
                        >> Osama's acts are morally indefensible on any grounds, even if the US had
                        >> actually done all the evil that he accuses us of. Himself? He's one
                        >> sick
                        >> puppy. Evil? That's up to God.
                        >> Score one for ambivalence.
                        >> Christine


                        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        ADVERTISEMENT




                        The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org

                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Bill
                        Sorry. I truly believe there are or have been evil people in this world. Hitler, for example, or Pol Phat (sp?) While bin Laden certainly is not in their
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jun 3, 2002
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Sorry. I truly believe there are or have been evil people
                          in this world.
                          Hitler, for example, or Pol Phat (sp?)
                          While bin Laden certainly is not in their league, I've no
                          doubt, given the weapons and
                          chance, he could be. ((assuming he's still alive)).
                          Of course. one can argue evil is in the mind of the
                          beholder. I'll not go any further
                          because I might stray over into politics, and this isn't the
                          venue for that.
                          Except, in this case, in the US, at least, the
                          overwhelming belief is bin Laden IS
                          evil.



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • SusanPal@aol.com
                          In a message dated 6/3/2002 10:33:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ... I m not so sure he s not in Hitler s and Pol Pot s league -- the idea of assessing the evil
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jun 3, 2002
                          • 0 Attachment
                            In a message dated 6/3/2002 10:33:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
                            lunacy2@... writes:


                            > While bin Laden certainly is not in their league, I've no
                            > doubt, given the weapons and
                            > chance, he could be.

                            I'm not so sure he's not in Hitler's and Pol Pot's league -- the idea of
                            assessing the evil of actions numerically makes me very nervous.

                            And I think it's much easier (although still not always easy!) to determine
                            if ACTIONS are evil than to determine if people are . . . and, to me, that
                            seems like safer theological ground, too.

                            Susan


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • jamcconney@aol.com
                            In a message dated 6/3/2002 12:33:28 PM Central Daylight Time, ... Dorothy Sayers has an essay ( in _Creed or Chaos_ I think) in which she asks the reader (I
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jun 3, 2002
                            • 0 Attachment
                              In a message dated 6/3/2002 12:33:28 PM Central Daylight Time,
                              lunacy2@... writes:


                              > While bin Laden certainly is not in their league, I've no
                              > doubt, given the weapons and
                              > chance, he could be.

                              Dorothy Sayers has an essay ( in _Creed or Chaos_ I think) in which she asks
                              the reader (I paraphrase, not having the book at hand) if the evil we do is
                              less because we lack the opportunity. It's an interesting point, as we do
                              tend to be a bit unclear whether we're talking about quantity or quality (if
                              one can use the word 'quality' about evil). Is the _quality_ of evil greater
                              in the WTC attack than in the Cole bombing--or was it just a bigger death
                              toll and a lot more spectacular.

                              Mind you, I don't necessarily subscribe to what I'm suggesting--I'm just
                              throwing the idea out for discussion. I don't subscribe to leGuin's "The Ones
                              Who Walk Away from Omelas" either, being of the unfortunate temperament that
                              prefers to draw the line in the sand and slug it out--but even after having
                              read it many times, I cry at the end.

                              Jamaq


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • michael_martinez2
                              I think I have read this entire discussion to date. I don t quite follow it. What was the definition for evil being used in the original article? While I
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jun 3, 2002
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I think I have read this entire discussion to date. I don't quite
                                follow it. What was the definition for "evil" being used in the
                                original article? While I do feel Osama Bin Laden is evil, that
                                belief is founded upon my own understanding of what constitutes
                                evil. I'm not sure there is or can be a magnitude of evil. One may
                                or may not be evil, but each evil act is a thing unto itself. After
                                unjustly putting many Christians to death, Saul of Tarsus had an
                                experience on the road to Damascus which changed his life, his
                                beliefs, and his behavior.

                                Was he evil simply because he had sinned?

                                The Christian view of evil can be distorted (or distilled into
                                various flavors) through argument and debate, but if Saul were really
                                deemed evil by God, then why would God make him an apostle? Or can
                                evil be cleansed from the soul? Isn't that what salvation is all
                                about?

                                Is Osama Bin Laden truly responsible for spurring sales of THE LORD
                                OF THE RINGS (and one must wonder how such influence was factored out
                                of the normally strong sales AND the movie-inspired sales AND the
                                various commercial play-inspired sales)? That sounds rather like the
                                claim that Al Gore invented the Internet, or that the business boom
                                of the 1990s would not have happened had Clinton not won the
                                presidency.

                                Maybe if Charles Beckwith III hadn't sat on a bench on April 13,
                                1914, World War II would never have happened. He committed such an
                                evil act, if he truly existed, and if his action was indeed the cause
                                of a long chain of events which led to the invasion of Poland. After
                                all, where does one draw the line between good and evil?

                                Is this simply another case of "Us" versus "Them"? According to
                                Osama Bin Laden (and millions of people in the Arab/Muslim world, if
                                the western news media is to be believed), America is evil. That
                                makes us evil. Why? Because someone else believes we are evil.
                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.