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Re: [mythsoc] LOTR review

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  • David S. Bratman
    ... Yes, I too cannot wait to find out what Frodo Baggin [sic] does next in his single-handed combat against the massed armies of Sauron. There was nothing
    Message 1 of 18 , Dec 2, 2001
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      At 07:22 AM 12/2/2001 , http://biz.yahoo.com wrote:

      >Critic David Ansen writes that the first movie in the trilogy of fantasy
      >films based on J.R.R. Tolkien's novels, ``works'' and he's sorry to have to
      >wait a full year to see what happens next in Frodo Baggin's battle against
      >the armies of the Dark Lord, Sauron.

      Yes, I too cannot wait to find out what Frodo Baggin [sic] does next in his
      single-handed combat against the massed armies of Sauron. There was
      nothing like that in the book, and no character named Baggin, so we'll all
      have to wait. <g>

      >In the first look at the film, Ansen
      >describes ``The Lord of the Rings'' as having ``real passion, real emotion,
      >real terror, and a tactile sense of Evil that is missing in that other long
      >current movie dealing with Wizards, wonders and wickedness.''

      Well, excuuuuuse me for not considering the Harry Potter film to be wholly
      terrible.

      About the rest of the review I'll reserve comment until I've seen the film,
      as the clips have been too short to judge fairly; but if it indeed fits
      this description, I'm intrigued that I would criticize much of what he
      finds praiseworthy, and praise what he criticizes.

      David Bratman
    • Berni Phillips
      From: ... plunging ... Oh, I would like to see that. It makes me think of the class material at Hogwarts. Berni
      Message 2 of 18 , Dec 2, 2001
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        From: <Stolzi@...>

        > This appears to have
        > come my way from http://biz.yahoo.com
        >
        > Ansen praises Jackson's shooting of the
        > movie, saying his camera ``literally flies like a hawk, swooping and
        plunging
        > into breathtaking scenes of blood and destruction.''

        Oh, I would like to see that. It makes me think of the class material at
        Hogwarts.

        Berni
      • Stolzi@aol.com
        In a message dated 12/2/01 11:34:42 AM Central Standard Time, ... I was depressed that the reviewer found the evil things in the film the most convincing, and
        Message 3 of 18 , Dec 2, 2001
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          In a message dated 12/2/01 11:34:42 AM Central Standard Time,
          dbratman@... writes:

          > I'm intrigued that I would criticize much of what he
          > finds praiseworthy, and praise what he criticizes.
          >

          I was depressed that the reviewer found the evil things in the film the most
          convincing, and the things representing Good to be hackneyed and trite.
          (Well, OK, I myself thought that Galadriel's swan boat as seen in stills was
          rather icky.)

          If it's true, it is a failure on Jackson's part, certainly (and I've been
          alarmed by the likeness of some shots and clips I've seen to Horror Movies).
          If it's not true, then either the reviewer, which is bad, or the whole
          culture, which is worse, simply has a blind spot, an allergy or deafness to
          Good. Which is highly possible.

          As for what you say about HPOTTER, David, I dunno. He hasn't said it's
          "terrible," just that it doesn't have "real passion, real emotion, real
          terror, and a tactile sense of Evil" - and I am not sure, myself, that it
          did. At least, maybe appropriately for a children's film, these things were
          not there on a very deep level.

          Am I the only one who thinks that Viggo Mortensen looks EXACTLY like Aragorn
          ought to look?

          Diamond Proudbrook
        • Joan Marie Verba
          ... He doesn t look anything close to what I imagine Aragron to look. But I can make allowances. Joan ****************************************** Joan Marie
          Message 4 of 18 , Dec 2, 2001
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            Diamond Proudbrook wrote:

            > Am I the only one who thinks that Viggo Mortensen looks EXACTLY like Aragorn
            > ought to look?

            He doesn't look anything close to what I imagine Aragron to look. But I
            can make allowances.

            Joan

            ******************************************
            Joan Marie Verba
            verba001@...
            http://www.sff.net/people/Joan.Marie.Verba
          • Janet Croft
            I wasn t sure at first, but the more I see the actors, the more the pictures in my mind start to look like them. Except Gimli. I love the concept of John
            Message 5 of 18 , Dec 4, 2001
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              I wasn't sure at first, but the more I see the actors, the more the pictures
              in my mind start to look like them. Except Gimli. I love the concept of
              John Rhys-Davies as Gimli, but somhow the few clips and pictures I've seen
              haven't "clicked" for me.

              Janet
              -----Original Message-----
              From: Joan Marie Verba [mailto:verba001@...]
              Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 8:45 PM
              To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [mythsoc] LOTR review


              Diamond Proudbrook wrote:

              > Am I the only one who thinks that Viggo Mortensen looks EXACTLY like
              Aragorn
              > ought to look?

              He doesn't look anything close to what I imagine Aragron to look. But I
              can make allowances.

              Joan

              ******************************************
              Joan Marie Verba
              verba001@...
              http://www.sff.net/people/Joan.Marie.Verba

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            • Grace E. Funk
              Odd reviews do pop up in odd places. In The Anglican Digest, Whitsuntide 2002, pp37-38, is an item titled We See Evil for What It Is . Having described LOTR
              Message 6 of 18 , May 30, 2002
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                Odd reviews do pop up in odd places. In The Anglican Digest, Whitsuntide
                2002, pp37-38, is an item titled "We See Evil for What It Is". Having
                described LOTR (the film) as "a straightforward tale of straightforward
                good and evil", the author, one William Murchison, proceeds to take off
                on his own agenda, which is to prove that Americans have been driven
                away from non-judgmental ambivalence. Ambivance was "modern" and
                promoted by "our Intellectual Betters", he says. Americans now recognize
                that evil is personified in Osama bin Laden, who ought to be given
                royalties for contributing to the popularaity of LOTR.
                Now there's a stretch! The article was copied from the Dallas Morning
                News.

                --
                Grace E. Funk R.R. #1, Lumby, B.C. V0E 2G0 Phone (250)547-6333
              • jamcconney@aol.com
                In a message dated 5/30/2002 1:50:22 PM Central Daylight Time, ... My word!--as a good card-carrying Episcopalian, I really must track this one down. Jamaq
                Message 7 of 18 , May 30, 2002
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                  In a message dated 5/30/2002 1:50:22 PM Central Daylight Time,
                  gfunk@... writes:


                  > Odd reviews do pop up in odd places. In The Anglican Digest, Whitsuntide
                  > 2002, pp37-38, is an item titled "We See Evil for What It Is". Having
                  > described LOTR (the film) as "a straightforward tale of straightforward
                  > good and evil", the author, one William Murchison, proceeds to take off
                  > on his own agenda, which is to prove that Americans have been driven
                  > away from non-judgmental ambivalence. Ambivance was "modern" and
                  > promoted by "our Intellectual Betters", he says. Americans now recognize
                  > that evil is personified in Osama bin Laden, who ought to be given
                  > royalties for contributing to the popularaity of LOTR.
                  > Now there's a stretch! The article was copied from the Dallas Morning
                  > News.
                  >

                  My word!--as a good card-carrying Episcopalian, I really must track this one
                  down.
                  Jamaq


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • dianejoy@earthlink.net
                  ... From: Grace E. Funk gfunk@junction.net Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 12:03:41 -0700 To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Subject: [mythsoc] LOTR review
                  Message 8 of 18 , May 31, 2002
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                    Original Message:
                    -----------------
                    From: Grace E. Funk gfunk@...
                    Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 12:03:41 -0700
                    To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [mythsoc] LOTR review


                    << Odd reviews do pop up in odd places. In The Anglican Digest, Whitsuntide
                    2002, pp37-38, is an item titled "We See Evil for What It Is". Having
                    described LOTR (the film) as "a straightforward tale of straightforward
                    good and evil", the author, one William Murchison, proceeds to take off
                    on his own agenda, which is to prove that Americans have been driven
                    away from non-judgmental ambivalence. Ambivalence was "modern" and
                    promoted by "our Intellectual Betters", he says. >>

                    So who are the stupid people who listened to these "intellectual betters" and followed like sheep? Some perhaps didn't know what was happening to their minds or consciences, but others just brushed it away as too impractical, too abstract, having no relationship to themselves. So when their kids come up with "that's your truth," they gurgle and look helpless

                    << Americans now recognize that evil is personified in Osama bin Laden, who ought to be given royalties for contributing to the popularaity of LOTR. >>

                    Osame bin Laden, sharing JRRT's royalties? Some cirtics are too clever for their own good. And this was in an *Anglican* magazine? I know it's a joke, but I find irony like that very unfunny these days. For shame! ---djb



                    --
                    Grace E. Funk R.R. #1, Lumby, B.C. V0E 2G0 Phone (250)547-6333




                    The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org

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                  • Randall Eicher
                    ... Whitsuntide ... and followed like sheep? Some perhaps didn t know what was happening to their minds or consciences, but others just brushed it away as too
                    Message 9 of 18 , May 31, 2002
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                      > << Odd reviews do pop up in odd places. In The Anglican Digest,
                      Whitsuntide
                      > 2002, pp37-38, is an item titled "We See Evil for What It Is". Having
                      > described LOTR (the film) as "a straightforward tale of straightforward
                      > good and evil", the author, one William Murchison, proceeds to take off
                      > on his own agenda, which is to prove that Americans have been driven
                      > away from non-judgmental ambivalence. Ambivalence was "modern" and
                      > promoted by "our Intellectual Betters", he says. >>
                      >
                      > So who are the stupid people who listened to these "intellectual betters"
                      and followed like sheep? Some perhaps didn't know what was happening to
                      their minds or consciences, but others just brushed it away as too
                      impractical, too abstract, having no relationship to themselves. So when
                      their kids come up with "that's your truth," they gurgle and look helpless
                      >
                      > << Americans now recognize that evil is personified in Osama bin Laden,
                      who ought to be given royalties for contributing to the popularaity of LOTR.
                      >>
                      >
                      > Osame bin Laden, sharing JRRT's royalties? Some cirtics are too clever
                      for their own good. And this was in an *Anglican* magazine? I know it's a
                      joke, but I find irony like that very unfunny these days. For
                      hame! ---djb
                      >

                      As a resident of Dallas I get to see Mr. Murchison's rantings on the
                      editorial page and can provide a modicum of insight into his viewpoint. He
                      is an ultra-conservative fundamentalist Christian who is always ranting on
                      about how American has gotten away from "good, solid" Christian values and
                      proceeds to condemn everyone and everything that does not fit in his
                      extremely narrow view.

                      He is of the opinion that the world would be better off blindly following
                      whatever they are told by their Church leaders rather questioning and
                      thinking for themselves.

                      Randall Eicher
                    • Christine Howlett
                      Sorry, I m born American, but I have real problems selecting people to personify evil. It seems like there are too durn many people doing that to justify
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jun 2, 2002
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                        Sorry, I'm born American, but I have real problems selecting people to
                        personify evil. It seems like there are too durn many people doing that to
                        justify their prejudices and then their bloodshed. I am willing to say that
                        Osama's acts are morally indefensible on any grounds, even if the US had
                        actually done all the evil that he accuses us of. Himself? He's one sick
                        puppy. Evil? That's up to God.
                        Score one for ambivalence.
                        Christine

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Grace E. Funk" <gfunk@...>
                        To: <mythsoc@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 3:03 PM
                        Subject: [mythsoc] LOTR review


                        > Odd reviews do pop up in odd places. In The Anglican Digest, Whitsuntide
                        > 2002, pp37-38, is an item titled "We See Evil for What It Is". Having
                        > described LOTR (the film) as "a straightforward tale of straightforward
                        > good and evil", the author, one William Murchison, proceeds to take off
                        > on his own agenda, which is to prove that Americans have been driven
                        > away from non-judgmental ambivalence. Ambivance was "modern" and
                        > promoted by "our Intellectual Betters", he says. Americans now recognize
                        > that evil is personified in Osama bin Laden, who ought to be given
                        > royalties for contributing to the popularaity of LOTR.
                        > Now there's a stretch! The article was copied from the Dallas Morning
                        > News.
                        >
                        > --
                        > Grace E. Funk R.R. #1, Lumby, B.C. V0E 2G0 Phone (250)547-6333
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Pauline J. Alama
                        I m with Ms. Howlett. Judge not lest ye be judged, or as Gandalf says, even the very wise do not know all ends. pauline Pauline J. Alama THE EYE OF NIGHT
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jun 3, 2002
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                          I'm with Ms. Howlett. Judge not lest ye be judged, or as Gandalf says, even the very wise do not know all ends.

                          pauline

                          Pauline J. Alama
                          THE EYE OF NIGHT
                          (Bantam Spectra, July 2002)


                          --- On Sun 06/02, Christine Howlett wrote:
                          From: Christine Howlett [mailto: chowlett@...]
                          To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Sun 06/02
                          Subject: Re: [mythsoc] LOTR review

                          > Sorry, I'm born American, but I have real problems selecting people to
                          > personify evil. It seems like there are too durn many people doing that
                          > to
                          > justify their prejudices and then their bloodshed. I am willing to say
                          > that
                          > Osama's acts are morally indefensible on any grounds, even if the US had
                          > actually done all the evil that he accuses us of. Himself? He's one
                          > sick
                          > puppy. Evil? That's up to God.
                          > Score one for ambivalence.
                          > Christine
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "Grace E. Funk"
                          > To:
                          > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 3:03 PM
                          > Subject: [mythsoc] LOTR review
                          >
                          >
                          > > Odd reviews do pop up in odd places. In The Anglican Digest,
                          > Whitsuntide
                          > > 2002, pp37-38, is an item titled "We See Evil for What It
                          > Is". Having
                          > > described LOTR (the film) as "a straightforward tale of
                          > straightforward
                          > > good and evil", the author, one William Murchison, proceeds to
                          > take off
                          > > on his own agenda, which is to prove that Americans have been driven
                          > > away from non-judgmental ambivalence. Ambivance was
                          > "modern" and
                          > > promoted by "our Intellectual Betters", he says. Americans
                          > now recognize
                          > > that evil is personified in Osama bin Laden, who ought to be given
                          > > royalties for contributing to the popularaity of LOTR.
                          > > Now there's a stretch! The article was copied from the Dallas
                          > Morning
                          > > News.
                          > >
                          > > --
                          > > Grace E. Funk R.R. #1, Lumby, B.C. V0E 2G0 Phone (250)547-6333
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                          > >
                          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
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                        • Carl F. Hostetter
                          That is certainly not what judge not ... means. As moral creatures with conscience and Free will, we are not only allowed but required to discern the
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jun 3, 2002
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                            That is certainly not what "judge not ..." means. As moral creatures with
                            conscience and Free will, we are not only allowed but required to discern
                            the difference between good and evil. (I'm speaking both of the races of
                            Middle-earth and our own world.) What we cannot do is determine another's
                            fate. That is left to God/Eru. Osama bin Laden is evil. Sauron was evil. Is
                            either iredeemable to God/Eru? _That_ is not for us to decide.


                            |======================================================================|
                            | Carl F. Hostetter Aelfwine@... http://www.elvish.org |
                            | |
                            | ho bios brachys, he de techne makre. |
                            | Ars longa, vita brevis. |
                            | The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne. |
                            | "I wish life was not so short," he thought. "Languages take |
                            | such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about." |
                            |======================================================================|

                            --------------------------

                            On 6/3/02 7:53 AM, "Pauline J. Alama" <PJAlama@...> wrote:

                            > I'm with Ms. Howlett. Judge not lest ye be judged, or as Gandalf says, even
                            > the very wise do not know all ends.
                            >
                            > pauline
                            >
                            > Pauline J. Alama
                            > THE EYE OF NIGHT
                            > (Bantam Spectra, July 2002)
                            >
                            >
                            > --- On Sun 06/02, Christine Howlett wrote:
                            > From: Christine Howlett [mailto: chowlett@...]
                            > To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                            > Date: Sun 06/02
                            > Subject: Re: [mythsoc] LOTR review
                            >
                            >> Sorry, I'm born American, but I have real problems selecting people to
                            >> personify evil. It seems like there are too durn many people doing that
                            >> to
                            >> justify their prejudices and then their bloodshed. I am willing to say
                            >> that
                            >> Osama's acts are morally indefensible on any grounds, even if the US had
                            >> actually done all the evil that he accuses us of. Himself? He's one
                            >> sick
                            >> puppy. Evil? That's up to God.
                            >> Score one for ambivalence.
                            >> Christine
                          • trudygshaw
                            What we can t do (literally--can t) is get inside another person s being and judge his or her motivation, state of mind, and all the other things that go into
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jun 3, 2002
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                              What we can't do (literally--can't) is get inside another person's being and judge his or her motivation, state of mind, and all the other things that go into the choice of an action, good or bad. We can do that only for ourselves, and even there (IMHO) only to a limited degree. One of the many reasons I'm glad I'm not God--I gratefully leave the task to her.

                              Free will gives us the responsibility to discern between good and evil (or choose from more than one good) in our own decisions, including how we decide to respond to another's evil actions.

                              --Trudy


                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Carl F. Hostetter
                              To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 8:05 AM
                              Subject: Re: [mythsoc] LOTR review


                              That is certainly not what "judge not ..." means. As moral creatures with
                              conscience and Free will, we are not only allowed but required to discern
                              the difference between good and evil. (I'm speaking both of the races of
                              Middle-earth and our own world.) What we cannot do is determine another's
                              fate. That is left to God/Eru. Osama bin Laden is evil. Sauron was evil. Is
                              either iredeemable to God/Eru? _That_ is not for us to decide.


                              |======================================================================|
                              | Carl F. Hostetter Aelfwine@... http://www.elvish.org |
                              | |
                              | ho bios brachys, he de techne makre. |
                              | Ars longa, vita brevis. |
                              | The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne. |
                              | "I wish life was not so short," he thought. "Languages take |
                              | such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about." |
                              |======================================================================|

                              --------------------------

                              On 6/3/02 7:53 AM, "Pauline J. Alama" <PJAlama@...> wrote:

                              > I'm with Ms. Howlett. Judge not lest ye be judged, or as Gandalf says, even
                              > the very wise do not know all ends.
                              >
                              > pauline
                              >
                              > Pauline J. Alama
                              > THE EYE OF NIGHT
                              > (Bantam Spectra, July 2002)
                              >
                              >
                              > --- On Sun 06/02, Christine Howlett wrote:
                              > From: Christine Howlett [mailto: chowlett@...]
                              > To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Sun 06/02
                              > Subject: Re: [mythsoc] LOTR review
                              >
                              >> Sorry, I'm born American, but I have real problems selecting people to
                              >> personify evil. It seems like there are too durn many people doing that
                              >> to
                              >> justify their prejudices and then their bloodshed. I am willing to say
                              >> that
                              >> Osama's acts are morally indefensible on any grounds, even if the US had
                              >> actually done all the evil that he accuses us of. Himself? He's one
                              >> sick
                              >> puppy. Evil? That's up to God.
                              >> Score one for ambivalence.
                              >> Christine


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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Bill
                              Sorry. I truly believe there are or have been evil people in this world. Hitler, for example, or Pol Phat (sp?) While bin Laden certainly is not in their
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jun 3, 2002
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                                Sorry. I truly believe there are or have been evil people
                                in this world.
                                Hitler, for example, or Pol Phat (sp?)
                                While bin Laden certainly is not in their league, I've no
                                doubt, given the weapons and
                                chance, he could be. ((assuming he's still alive)).
                                Of course. one can argue evil is in the mind of the
                                beholder. I'll not go any further
                                because I might stray over into politics, and this isn't the
                                venue for that.
                                Except, in this case, in the US, at least, the
                                overwhelming belief is bin Laden IS
                                evil.



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • SusanPal@aol.com
                                In a message dated 6/3/2002 10:33:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ... I m not so sure he s not in Hitler s and Pol Pot s league -- the idea of assessing the evil
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jun 3, 2002
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                                  In a message dated 6/3/2002 10:33:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
                                  lunacy2@... writes:


                                  > While bin Laden certainly is not in their league, I've no
                                  > doubt, given the weapons and
                                  > chance, he could be.

                                  I'm not so sure he's not in Hitler's and Pol Pot's league -- the idea of
                                  assessing the evil of actions numerically makes me very nervous.

                                  And I think it's much easier (although still not always easy!) to determine
                                  if ACTIONS are evil than to determine if people are . . . and, to me, that
                                  seems like safer theological ground, too.

                                  Susan


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • jamcconney@aol.com
                                  In a message dated 6/3/2002 12:33:28 PM Central Daylight Time, ... Dorothy Sayers has an essay ( in _Creed or Chaos_ I think) in which she asks the reader (I
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Jun 3, 2002
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                                    In a message dated 6/3/2002 12:33:28 PM Central Daylight Time,
                                    lunacy2@... writes:


                                    > While bin Laden certainly is not in their league, I've no
                                    > doubt, given the weapons and
                                    > chance, he could be.

                                    Dorothy Sayers has an essay ( in _Creed or Chaos_ I think) in which she asks
                                    the reader (I paraphrase, not having the book at hand) if the evil we do is
                                    less because we lack the opportunity. It's an interesting point, as we do
                                    tend to be a bit unclear whether we're talking about quantity or quality (if
                                    one can use the word 'quality' about evil). Is the _quality_ of evil greater
                                    in the WTC attack than in the Cole bombing--or was it just a bigger death
                                    toll and a lot more spectacular.

                                    Mind you, I don't necessarily subscribe to what I'm suggesting--I'm just
                                    throwing the idea out for discussion. I don't subscribe to leGuin's "The Ones
                                    Who Walk Away from Omelas" either, being of the unfortunate temperament that
                                    prefers to draw the line in the sand and slug it out--but even after having
                                    read it many times, I cry at the end.

                                    Jamaq


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • michael_martinez2
                                    I think I have read this entire discussion to date. I don t quite follow it. What was the definition for evil being used in the original article? While I
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Jun 3, 2002
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                                      I think I have read this entire discussion to date. I don't quite
                                      follow it. What was the definition for "evil" being used in the
                                      original article? While I do feel Osama Bin Laden is evil, that
                                      belief is founded upon my own understanding of what constitutes
                                      evil. I'm not sure there is or can be a magnitude of evil. One may
                                      or may not be evil, but each evil act is a thing unto itself. After
                                      unjustly putting many Christians to death, Saul of Tarsus had an
                                      experience on the road to Damascus which changed his life, his
                                      beliefs, and his behavior.

                                      Was he evil simply because he had sinned?

                                      The Christian view of evil can be distorted (or distilled into
                                      various flavors) through argument and debate, but if Saul were really
                                      deemed evil by God, then why would God make him an apostle? Or can
                                      evil be cleansed from the soul? Isn't that what salvation is all
                                      about?

                                      Is Osama Bin Laden truly responsible for spurring sales of THE LORD
                                      OF THE RINGS (and one must wonder how such influence was factored out
                                      of the normally strong sales AND the movie-inspired sales AND the
                                      various commercial play-inspired sales)? That sounds rather like the
                                      claim that Al Gore invented the Internet, or that the business boom
                                      of the 1990s would not have happened had Clinton not won the
                                      presidency.

                                      Maybe if Charles Beckwith III hadn't sat on a bench on April 13,
                                      1914, World War II would never have happened. He committed such an
                                      evil act, if he truly existed, and if his action was indeed the cause
                                      of a long chain of events which led to the invasion of Poland. After
                                      all, where does one draw the line between good and evil?

                                      Is this simply another case of "Us" versus "Them"? According to
                                      Osama Bin Laden (and millions of people in the Arab/Muslim world, if
                                      the western news media is to be believed), America is evil. That
                                      makes us evil. Why? Because someone else believes we are evil.
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