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Re: [mythsoc] Re: Recent Suite101 Tolkien/Middle-earth articles

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  • James P. Robinson III
    I should have looked it up before I posted. According to yourdictionary.com: Main Entry: shib.bo.leth Pronunciation: shi-b&-l&th also - leth Function: noun
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 31, 2001
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      I should have looked it up before I posted. According to yourdictionary.com:

      Main Entry: shib.bo.leth
      Pronunciation: 'shi-b&-l&th also -"leth
      Function: noun
      Etymology: Hebrew shibbOleth stream; from the
      use of this word
      in Judg 12:6 as a test to distinguish
      Gileadites from Ephraimites,
      who pronounced it sibbOleth
      Date: 1638
      1 a : a word or saying used by adherents of a
      party, sect, or belief
      and usually regarded by others as empty of
      real meaning b : a
      widely held belief c : TRUISM, PLATITUDE
      2 a : a use of language regarded as
      distinctive of a particular
      group b : a custom or usage regarded as
      distinguishing one group
      from others




      As the clock struck 09:55 PM 10/31/2001 +0000, Michael Martinez took pen in
      hand and wrote:
      >--- In mythsoc@y..., ERATRIANO@a... wrote:
      > > In a message dated 10/31/01 12:35:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,
      > > michael@x... writes:
      > >
      > > << But there may also be a connection with the much
      > > later 'Shibboleth of Feanor'. >>
      > >
      > > The what?? And isn't Shibboleth a Hebrew word for something? Sure
      >I'd scope
      > > the site but I'm just not online much lately.
      >
      >Yes, it is a Hebrew word, used in reference to the distinctions drawn
      >between peoples. "The Shibboleth of Feanor" is a fairly late essay,
      >published in THE PEOPLES OF MIDDLE-EARTH, which discusses how a
      >controversy over the change in pronunciation of a specific sound
      >(which occurred in his mother's name, and is represented by the Thorn
      >character, shifting to an S-sound) led to a division of the Noldor
      >into two linguistic communities, reflecting the broader division of
      >the nation into what might be called two philosophical or political
      >communities (although I think that is oversimplification).
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
      >
      >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

      --
      =================================================
      James P. Robinson III jprobins@...

      All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
      author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with
      an attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
      given in writing.
      =================================================
    • Juliet Blosser
      ... Shibboleth comes from Judges 12:6. My condensation of the story: The Ammonites were attacking a region of Israel, and God sent a Gileadite named
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 31, 2001
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        On Wed, Oct 31, 2001 at 02:08:13PM -0500, ERATRIANO@... wrote:
        > In a message dated 10/31/01 12:35:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,
        > michael@... writes:
        >
        > << But there may also be a connection with the much
        > later 'Shibboleth of Feanor'. >>
        >
        > The what?? And isn't Shibboleth a Hebrew word for something? Sure I'd scope
        > the site but I'm just not online much lately.
        >
        > Lizzie

        "Shibboleth" comes from Judges 12:6. My condensation of the story:
        The Ammonites were attacking a region of Israel, and God sent a Gileadite
        named Jephthah to take them out. After he came back successful, the
        men of Ephraim, an ethnic subgroup, told Jephthah they were going to
        attack him because they didn't get to go to the battle.

        "Jephthah then called together the men of Gilead and fought against
        Ephraim. The Gileadites struck them down because the Ephraimites had
        said, 'You Gileadites are renegades from Ephraim and Manasseh.' The
        Gileadites captured the fords of the Jordan leading to Ephraim, and
        whenever a survivor of Ephraim siad, 'Let me cross over,' the men of
        Gilead asked him, 'Are you an Ephraimite?' If he replied, 'No,' they
        said, 'All right, say "Shibboleth."' If he said, 'Sibboleth,' because
        he could not pronounce the word correctly, they seized him and killed
        him at the fordes of the Jordan."

        Judges 12:4-6a

        I've long considered this one of the more interesting stories in the Bible.
      • ERATRIANO@aol.com
        Well that damn Shibboleth discussion is very interesting. Thanks, Lizzie
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 1, 2001
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          Well that damn Shibboleth discussion is very interesting.

          Thanks,

          Lizzie
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