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Re: [mythsoc] Arwen/Aragorn Love Story

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  • David S. Bratman
    Niff - For more information on these matters, start with LOTR s Appendix A. Then note the instruction given there: Of these things the full tale, and much
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 27, 2001
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      Niff -

      For more information on these matters, start with LOTR's Appendix A. Then
      note the instruction given there: "Of these things the full tale, and much
      else concerning Elves and Men, is told in _The Silmarillion_." Thirdly,
      read _Unfinished Tales_, which tells more still.

      David Bratman
    • Michael Martinez
      ... Tolkien never really told the full story. There are fragments of the Elves history and their reasons for staying in Middle-earth scattered throughout
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 28, 2001
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        --- In mythsoc@y..., NiffMarie@c... wrote:
        > > Elves didn't go to the Havens earlier for several reasons.
        > > Galadriel, for one, had been a rebel and was refused return
        > > until she passed the test, in her famous scene with Frodo.
        >
        > Where would one read about these earlier happenings? Are Galadriel,
        > and the others who messed up Middle Earth in a different book?

        Tolkien never really told the full story. There are fragments of the
        Elves' history and their reasons for staying in Middle-earth
        scattered throughout various texts, some of which may (for all we
        know) have not yet been published. A wealth of material on
        linguistic resources remains to be published, and often the
        linguistic essays include interesting asides on Elvish history (or
        the histories of other peoples) and/or perspectives.

        I've been trying to answer a lot of these questions for the past
        couple of years at Suite101.Com, where I write a (mostly) weekly
        essay on Tolkien and Middle-earth:

        http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/tolkien

        The essays include a lot of speculation, but I try to provide
        references to sources without seeming too scholarly. Some of the
        more recent essays are still waiting for me to post edits, so there
        are a few typos and goofs which need correction.

        With respect to your specific questions, I recommend the following
        essays (which sometimes ask more questions than they answer):

        "Shhh! It's a secret ring!"
        http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/58090

        "Who knew about the Rings of Power at the end of the Third Age? It
        requires some historical detective work to figure out who knew about
        them in the first place, who learned about them later, and who would
        have been around to forget about them."

        "A history of the Last Alliance of Elves and Men"
        3 parts
        http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/69542
        http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/69544
        http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/70973

        I actually wrote this paper several years ago for the journal ARDA at
        the editor's request, but that planned volume was never published, so
        I finally decide to publish it at Suite101. This is therefore a more
        formal work than the other essays.

        "Moving sale: magic rings and other trinkets, half off"
        http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/54057

        "The Elves of Middle-earth had many regrets. But were they simply
        being materialistic when they grieved for lost treasures, or was
        there something more?"

        "Gil-galad was an Elven-king"
        http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/44954

        "A discussion of Gil-galad's history and genealogy, and the
        importance of The Silmarillion in studying Gil-galad."


        And if you're curious about the Numenorean psyche and why Aragorn's
        people ended up in their mess, you might want to read these essays:

        "Seeking the wayward children of Numenor"
        http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/47755

        "How did Arnor and Gondor come to be, and what were the fundamental
        differences between the characters of the two realms? And what was
        the contribution of Numenor to their founding? A discussion of the
        origins of Arnor and Gondor explores the dynamics of Numenorean
        culture and how it laid the foundation for the two realms in exile."

        "Before the Numenoreans came"
        http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/48204

        "What was Eriador like in the years between the departure of the
        Numenoreans over Sea and their eventual return? We can extrapolate a
        few ideas based on things J.R.R. Tolkien said concerning the history
        of the Dunedain."

        "Have island, will rebel"
        http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/48697

        "Did Numenorean society follow an inevitable path toward division
        because the kings retained, respected, and enlarged autonomous
        traditions? Were the noble families of Numenor able to influence the
        policies of the kings both directly and indirectly? This article
        examines the roots of Numenorean politcal power and the connections
        between that power and the economic forces of the Numenorean
        civilization."

        There are now over 100 articles, so I'm not going to list them all
        here. :)

        A full index is available here:
        http://www.suite101.com/articles.cfm/tolkien

        Hope you find it worth browsing. People don't always agree with my
        arguments and conclusions, but I've gotten pretty good feedback on
        the essays. And you'll at least get an idea of the sorts of things
        to look for as you collect the books and browse them.

        > > Elrond left with the others. Arwen gave up her place, and was
        > > made mortal by the grace of the Valar; and as she says to Aragorn
        > > at the end, There is now no ship that would bear me hence.
        >
        > So she goes to the same place Aragorn went: Heaven?

        That is the implication.
      • NiffMarie@cs.com
        In a message dated 9/28/2001 2:44:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... Thank you so much for all the links! I will save this also
        Message 3 of 6 , Sep 28, 2001
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          In a message dated 9/28/2001 2:44:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
          michael@... writes:

          > Tolkien never really told the full story. There are fragments of the
          > Elves' history and their reasons for staying in Middle-earth
          > scattered throughout various texts, some of which may (for all we
          > know) have not yet been published. A wealth of material on
          > linguistic resources remains to be published, and often the
          > linguistic essays include interesting asides on Elvish history (or
          > the histories of other peoples) and/or perspectives.
          <Clipped many excellent links>

          Thank you so much for all the links! I will save this also for future
          reference and browsing!

          > > So she goes to the same place Aragorn went: Heaven?
          >
          > That is the implication.

          That's very sweet!

          Thanks again!

          --Niff, infj
          NiffMarie@...
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          "Anyone who has a library and a garden wants for nothing."
          Cicero
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