Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [mythsoc] Re: A stupid question

Expand Messages
  • Stolzi@aol.com
    In a message dated 9/8/01 12:16:26 AM Central Daylight Time, ... So, what we need here is a bureaucratic organization chart :) Mordor, being horrendously
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 8, 2001
    • 0 Attachment
      In a message dated 9/8/01 12:16:26 AM Central Daylight Time,
      michael@... writes:

      > The Lord of the Nazgul was also the Witch-king of Angmar, the Lord of
      > Morgul, and the Captain of Mordor.
      > Robert Foster provides a full
      > list of his titles in THE COMPLETE GUIDE TO MIDDLE-EARTH.

      So, what we need here is a bureaucratic organization chart :) Mordor, being
      horrendously evil, is bound to have a bureaucracy :)

      There's also the Mouth of Sauron, who turns up as a convenient spokesman
      after the Lord of the Nazgul's goose, or pterodactyl, is cooked.


      Diamond Proudbrook
    • Michael Martinez
      ... You say that in jest, but you strike closer to the mark than you realize. Mordor did indeed have a bureaucracy. Bureaucracy is one of those features of
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 8, 2001
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In mythsoc@y..., Stolzi@a... wrote:
        > In a message dated 9/8/01 12:16:26 AM Central Daylight Time,
        > michael@x... writes:
        >
        > > The Lord of the Nazgul was also the Witch-king of Angmar, the
        > > Lord of Morgul, and the Captain of Mordor.
        > > Robert Foster provides a full
        > > list of his titles in THE COMPLETE GUIDE TO MIDDLE-EARTH.
        >
        > So, what we need here is a bureaucratic organization chart :)
        > Mordor, being horrendously evil, is bound to have a bureaucracy :)

        You say that in jest, but you strike closer to the mark than you
        realize. Mordor did indeed have a bureaucracy. Bureaucracy is one
        of those features of human society which rely upon what Tolkien
        called "The Machine". The Machine is the coercion we result to when
        we want to have our way, whether it be with the landscape (such as
        cutting down trees, dredging rivers, etc.) or with people (by
        organizing them, and assigning them numbers, etc.).

        When Frodo and Sam get caught up with the marching Orcs in Mordor,
        one of the sergeants demands to know their numbers. Presumably,
        Sauron's armies had some sort of serial number system (and I suppose
        one could infer from that one passage that Tolkien may have detested
        the dehumanization that modern armies inflict upon their recruits).

        I think the concept of The Machine is fascinating, and is one of the
        least understood themes in Tolkien's book. Christopher Tolkien
        explains it very eloquently in "JRRT: A Film Portrait", which was
        produced by the Tolkien Trust in 1992 and includes interviews with
        the surviving Tolkien children, Tom Shippey, Verlyn Flieger, and
        Queen Margrethe of Denmark.
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.