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A truly depressing post

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  • Stolzi@aol.com
    ... it. ... you? ...... Diamond Proudbrook
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 20, 2001
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      This, from an on-line discussion of HARRY POTTER:

      >My second grader read "The Call of the Wild" this year on his own and loved
      it.
      >His teacher's comment "Don't you think that's a little ambitious for
      you?'......


      Diamond Proudbrook
    • Juliet Blosser
      ... Ugh, how awful! I read to my one-year-old from Dr. Seuss, Winnie the Pooh, Alice in Wonderland, and the Bible. I hope I never live to hear anyone tell
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 20, 2001
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        On Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 04:37:17PM -0400, Stolzi@... wrote:
        > This, from an on-line discussion of HARRY POTTER:
        >
        > >My second grader read "The Call of the Wild" this year on his own and loved
        > it.
        > >His teacher's comment "Don't you think that's a little ambitious for
        > you?'......
        >
        Ugh, how awful! I read to my one-year-old from Dr. Seuss, Winnie the
        Pooh, Alice in Wonderland, and the Bible. I hope I never live to hear
        anyone tell her she's reading something too ambitious.
      • Janet Croft
        I was stood in the corner in second grade for reading Call of the Wild during class, under cover of the top of my desk. Rather than give up my book (at an
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 20, 2001
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          I was stood in the corner in second grade for reading Call of the Wild
          during class, under cover of the top of my desk. Rather than give up my
          book (at an exciting part!), I told the teacher I was playing jacks and gave
          up my jacks bag instead...

          a martyr to the cause of reading from way back,
          Janet
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Juliet Blosser [mailto:juliet@...]
          Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 4:24 PM
          To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [mythsoc] A truly depressing post


          On Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 04:37:17PM -0400, Stolzi@... wrote:
          > This, from an on-line discussion of HARRY POTTER:
          >
          > >My second grader read "The Call of the Wild" this year on his own and
          loved
          > it.
          > >His teacher's comment "Don't you think that's a little ambitious for
          > you?'......
          >
          Ugh, how awful! I read to my one-year-old from Dr. Seuss, Winnie the
          Pooh, Alice in Wonderland, and the Bible. I hope I never live to hear
          anyone tell her she's reading something too ambitious.

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        • Ginger L. Zabel
          ... My mother read The Hobbit and LotR to me when I was 4 and 5. This year I m teaching 7th grade English and one of the other teachers commented that I
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 20, 2001
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            -----------
            My mother read The Hobbit and LotR to me when I was 4 and 5. This year I'm
            teaching 7th grade English and one of the other teachers commented that I
            shouldn't expect them to know how to write paragraphs or know what verbs
            and nouns are yet. I haven't seen for myself, but nothing surprises me
            anymore.

            -Ginger

            "To be ignorant is not such a shame as to be unwilling to learn." - G. W.
            Hoss
          • Lisa Deutsch Harrigan
            One of the legitimate fears of teachers though is parents who push their kids too far. I know one pushy mother who s second grade daughter loved the musical
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 20, 2001
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              One of the legitimate fears of teachers though is parents who
              push their kids too far.

              I know one pushy mother who's second grade daughter loved the
              musical Oliver. Her mother glowed with pride that in "love of
              Oliver" her daughter had read the original Oliver Twist. The
              child didn't really look that happy about the experience.
              Although she claimed to love the book to please her mother.

              Then suddenly you have a child who hates reading.

              If a child finds a book and reads it cover to cover on their own
              and really, really love it, then it is not too ambitious. Even if
              they skim over it and only understand some of it, and still love
              it, Go For It! They'll revisit the old friend later and better
              understand it. Kids love to reread favorites. My daughter did
              that with the Hobbit.

              But teachers must be careful of pushy parents too, for the
              protection of the child. And some times teachers over protect,
              too.

              In the case of the Harry Porter discussion it is hard to tell. If
              the kid really loved the book, just glare at the teacher and get
              on with life. But do check the ego and make sure that you aren't
              pushing the kid.

              Mythically yours,

              Lisa

              Stolzi@... wrote:

              > This, from an on-line discussion of HARRY POTTER:
              >
              > >My second grader read "The Call of the Wild" this year on his
              > own and loved
              > it.
              > >His teacher's comment "Don't you think that's a little
              > ambitious for
              > you?'......
              >
            • intyalin@aol.com
              In a message dated 8/20/2001 5:28:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... When I was in the 2nd grade I was enamored of a series of books set in a small town called
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 20, 2001
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                In a message dated 8/20/2001 5:28:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                juliet@... writes:


                > > >>My second grader read "The Call of the Wild" this year on his own and
                > loved
                > >>>>it.
                > > >>>>His teacher's comment "Don't you think that's a little ambitious for
                > >>>> you?'......
                > >
                >

                >Ugh, how awful! I read to my one-year-old from Dr. Seuss, Winnie the
                > >Pooh, Alice in Wonderland, and the Bible. I hope I never live to hear
                > >

                When I was in the 2nd grade I was enamored of a series of books set in a
                small town called Canterbury. I don't recall the titles or their author, but
                I recall one book was about a breakfast cereal with super-nutrients that made
                a shrew (I think it was) grow to giant proportions. From that book, I
                learned the word "succumb" (which was the shrew's fate: it succumbed). One
                day at the bookmobile, I found a big book called The Canterbury Tales &
                rushed to check it out. I was certain it belonged to the series I was
                reading. The librarian on duty cautioned me that this book was too advanced
                for me, but I ignored her & to be sure, I was unable to make heads or tails
                of it. But the memory of that strange, difficult book stayed with me, so
                that when I discovered Chaucer early in high school, I was eager & ready for
                it. How does that old saying go? One's reach must exceed one's grasp? Is
                that it? Anyway, adults (as they are called) must never underestimate, nor
                discourage (dis-coeur-age), a child's curiousity & thirst for stories. Or
                words.

                Kevin
                (currently reading Shippey's JRRT: Author of the Century)


                ...


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Trudy Shaw
                ... From: Stolzi@aol.com To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 3:37 PM Subject: [mythsoc] A truly depressing post ... it. ... you? ......
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 20, 2001
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                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Stolzi@...
                  To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 3:37 PM
                  Subject: [mythsoc] A truly depressing post


                  This, from an on-line discussion of HARRY POTTER:

                  >My second grader read "The Call of the Wild" this year on his own and loved
                  it.
                  >His teacher's comment "Don't you think that's a little ambitious for
                  you?'......


                  Diamond Proudbrook



                  Okay, this is about 25 times longer than the original post, but it's one topic I actually have some "history" regarding, at least enough to teach me that the adults' approach to the kid in a situation like this can actually make a difference.

                  I vaguely remember a time before I could read (all I remember is that my older sisters used to read a particular book to me, substituting my name for that of the heroine, and that I was terribly disappointed when I read it myself and found out her name was really Hope Ann). But I don't remember learning _how_ to read. I was probably three. A couple of years ago, I stumbled across a description of "spontaneous reading," when a child just breaks the code and jumps in, and I think this must be what happened with me. The article where I read about it _was_ regarding a case of a parent not so much pushing as "showing off" the child, having him read out loud to strangers (e.g., while in a doctor's waiting room). Sheesh--sends chills down my spine.

                  Anyway, I was addicted immediately, picking up anything and everything I could find, and with four older brothers & sisters (three of them also addicts) a lot of it might not have been "appropriate." When my mother caught me reading a high school science book at the age of six, she told me not to tell anyone, so I got the idea there was something wrong with it. I know now she was concerned that if the other kids knew about it, it would be a social problem--and, actually, she was right! But it would have been nice if she'd explained that to me at the time, instead of exclaiming, "Don't tell anyone you're reading that!!"

                  For those of you who have contact with children, I'd like to tell you about two teachers I had, one in first grade and one in second, who didn't single me out when the other kids were learning to read, but gave me extra things to do on my own (no gifted classes in 1961, which maybe wasn't such a bad thing). The second grade teacher had me make a folder of reports on books I read, complete with illustrations (I still remember how proud I was of my pushmepulyu--although I'm not sure I remember how to spell it). But the one who did me an exceedingly great favor was the first grade teacher, who had a "magic box" of pictures in the back cupboard. They were just cut from calendars and magazines, but they were magic because each one had a story in it. And, you know, she was right, too--I wrote a story about every picture I took out of that box. It was a life-changing experience; I haven't stopped writing, in one way or another, since (and, yes, I've thanked her).

                  (My habit of picking up discarded books paid off handsomely when my sister left _The Fellowship of the Ring_ lying around when she went back to college one year; she never did get it back.)

                  --Trudy


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                • Stolzi@aol.com
                  In a message dated 8/20/01 8:13:27 PM Central Daylight Time, ... out ... I was promoted instantly into the second grade when they found out I could already
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 21, 2001
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                    In a message dated 8/20/01 8:13:27 PM Central Daylight Time,
                    tgshaw@... writes:

                    > a parent not so much pushing as "showing off" the child, having him read
                    out
                    > loud to strangers

                    I was promoted instantly into the second grade when they found out I could
                    already read, and then remember at least one occasion of being taken from my
                    second grade room to read to the third-graders and inspire them to shame or
                    emulation. Shame, more likely.

                    Yuck!

                    My mother said she didn't know exactly how I learned to read before entering
                    school, but she knew it was using the letters as a code, not "sight-reading,"
                    because I would sound out words.

                    Diamond Proudbrook
                  • NiffMarie@cs.com
                    Hi! I don t usually write much - though I enjoy reading all the posts! I do happen to know a bit about giftedness and wanted to add my $0.02. :-) Kids who
                    Message 9 of 11 , Aug 21, 2001
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                      Hi!

                      I don't usually write much - though I enjoy reading all the posts!

                      I do happen to know a bit about giftedness and wanted to add my $0.02. :-)

                      Kids who learn quickly and lots can be of two types: the ones whose parents
                      pushed them (I think this might be a bit obvious - the kids are nervous,
                      etc), and those who push themselves and learn because they enjoy it. Often,
                      if gifted kiddos aren't given enough to stimulate them, it leads to a lot of
                      negative emotional experiences and trouble. So it could go either way.

                      OTOH, sometimes teachers react to giftedness, thinking reflexively that
                      either the parents are too pushy (and it's bad for the child), or thinking
                      for other reasons it's not good for kids to be exceptionally advanced. This
                      is also damaging, a lot of times. In other cases, though, they are right on -
                      sometimes parents do push too hard.

                      Anyway, interesting thread! Sorry to interrupt :-)

                      --Niff, infj
                      NiffMarie@...
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      "Anyone who has a library and a garden wants for nothing."
                      Cicero
                    • Janet Croft
                      Absolutely! My husband and I both experienced being understimulated in school, and being looked at askance by our teachers and other students. It was
                      Message 10 of 11 , Aug 21, 2001
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                        Absolutely! My husband and I both experienced being understimulated in
                        school, and being looked at askance by our teachers and other students. It
                        was emotionally unpleasant, to say the least. Our daughter was held back
                        when she tried to work ahead in math in kindergarten, and that's why we've
                        home-schooled ever since -- to spare her from anyone saying giftedness made
                        her a freak, or that she should act dumb to get boys. (or at least to get
                        dumb boys ;))

                        Janet
                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: NiffMarie@... [mailto:NiffMarie@...]
                        Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 3:01 PM
                        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] A truly depressing post


                        Hi!

                        I don't usually write much - though I enjoy reading all the posts!

                        I do happen to know a bit about giftedness and wanted to add my $0.02. :-)

                        Kids who learn quickly and lots can be of two types: the ones whose
                        parents
                        pushed them (I think this might be a bit obvious - the kids are nervous,
                        etc), and those who push themselves and learn because they enjoy it.
                        Often,
                        if gifted kiddos aren't given enough to stimulate them, it leads to a lot
                        of
                        negative emotional experiences and trouble. So it could go either way.

                        OTOH, sometimes teachers react to giftedness, thinking reflexively that
                        either the parents are too pushy (and it's bad for the child), or thinking
                        for other reasons it's not good for kids to be exceptionally advanced.
                        This
                        is also damaging, a lot of times. In other cases, though, they are right
                        on -
                        sometimes parents do push too hard.

                        Anyway, interesting thread! Sorry to interrupt :-)

                        --Niff, infj
                        NiffMarie@...
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                        "Anyone who has a library and a garden wants for nothing."
                        Cicero

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                      • alexeik@aol.com
                        In a message dated 8/21/1 7:29:39 PM, Mary wrote:
                        Message 11 of 11 , Aug 21, 2001
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                          In a message dated 8/21/1 7:29:39 PM, Mary wrote:

                          <<My mother said she didn't know exactly how I learned to read before
                          entering
                          school, but she knew it was using the letters as a code, not "sight-reading,"
                          because I would sound out words.
                          >>

                          I also learned to read by myself when I was about three. I wonder how
                          widespread a phenomenon that actually is? I first learned to read Cyrillic,
                          and then learned the Latin alphabet by comparing the phonetic values of the
                          letters to the alphabet I already knew. All this was long before I went to
                          school.
                          Alexei
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