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Re: [mythsoc] Digest Number 657

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  • Steve Schaper
    ... Mortenson is about 20 years too young. And where did the goatees come in? Dunedain aped the Elves, so they shaved. ... Mayhap people will not be willing
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 9, 2001
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      > Message: 5
      > Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 12:04:38 EDT
      > From: Stolzi@...
      > Subject: Re: Re: FIRST RINGS IN HOME STRETCH
      >
      > LURTZ !!!!!!!!>!???????????
      >
      > Ah well, thank you, Michael. (Sigh)
      >
      > As to my other question, anyone know what Boyens meant when she said it was a
      > lucky stroke that Viggo Mortensen came to be cast as Aragorn?
      >
      > I haven't seen his acting, of course, but he LOOKS so right... a big relief
      > to me.
      >
      > Mary S

      Mortenson is about 20 years too young. And where did the goatees come
      in? Dunedain aped the Elves, so they shaved.

      >
      >
      > Message: 7
      > Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 16:34:55 -0500
      > From: "Sweet & Tender Hooligan" <cirhsein@...>
      >
      > You're right, of course. But if Jackson does it right, it will be a
      > /different/ kind of magic, sounding - not the same - but every bit as
      > wonderful.
      >
      > Ever the optimist,
      >

      Mayhap people will not be willing to wait one, then two years to see how
      it ends, and will -read the books!-

      > Message: 8
      > Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 21:56:12 -0000
      > From: "Michael Martinez" <michael@...>
      > Subject: Re: FIRST RINGS IN HOME STRETCH
      >

      >
      > By all accounts, Viggo Mortensen did everything possible to become
      > Aragorn. He even slept in a tent, took his sword home with him
      > (apparently the only actor to do so), and became so attached to his
      > horse that he purchased it when filming was complete.

      Well, that's very positive.

      >

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    • WendellWag@aol.com
      In a message dated 8/10/01 12:04:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ... It seems to me that all the parts were cast too young. I had thought that Galadriel should
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 10, 2001
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        In a message dated 8/10/01 12:04:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
        sschaper@... writes:


        > Mortenson is about 20 years too young. And where did the goatees come
        > in? Dunedain aped the Elves, so they shaved.
        >
        >

        It seems to me that all the parts were cast too young. I had thought that
        Galadriel should be played by some 50-ish bombshell actress - Susan Sarandon,
        Catherine Deneuve, Francesca Annis, or some such. Having her played by the
        30-to 31-year-old (as of the time of the filming) Cate Blanchett is weird.

        Wendell Wagner


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Margaret Dean
        ... In the =wilderness?= I can see them shaving when they were at home, so to speak (and in Gondor of course), but on the trail I can t imagine them
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 10, 2001
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          Steve Schaper wrote:

          > > From: Stolzi@...

          > > As to my other question, anyone know what Boyens meant when she said it was a
          > > lucky stroke that Viggo Mortensen came to be cast as Aragorn?
          > >
          > > I haven't seen his acting, of course, but he LOOKS so right... a big relief
          > > to me.

          > Mortenson is about 20 years too young. And where did the goatees come
          > in? Dunedain aped the Elves, so they shaved.

          In the =wilderness?= I can see them shaving when they were at
          home, so to speak (and in Gondor of course), but on the trail I
          can't imagine them bothering. I've always "seen" Aragorn with a
          beard for that reason, at least when he's being Strider.


          --Margaret Dean
          <margdean@...>
        • Trudy Shaw
          ... From: WendellWag@aol.com To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 6:38 AM Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Digest Number 657 It seems to me that all
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 10, 2001
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            ----- Original Message -----
            From: WendellWag@...
            To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 6:38 AM
            Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Digest Number 657


            It seems to me that all the parts were cast too young. I had thought that
            Galadriel should be played by some 50-ish bombshell actress - Susan Sarandon,
            Catherine Deneuve, Francesca Annis, or some such. Having her played by the
            30-to 31-year-old (as of the time of the filming) Cate Blanchett is weird.

            Wendell Wagner


            That's something I've always kind of wondered about--if Elves are immortal, do they reach a certain apparent age and then stop "aging," or do they age continuously but very slowly? Would Galadriel and Arwen look like sisters, even though they're two generations apart, or would it be obvious that Galadriel is the grandmother? Is there any evidence one way or the other? Since I've never been able to figure this out, I guess I haven't worried too much about the apparent age of the people being cast as Elves. I have to say the movie's Galadriel is very much as I've pictured her; the hair is perfect (to my imagined version) and _I want that dress_ from the mirror scene.

            The only age issue I was originally concerned about was casting someone as Pippin who's about 8-10 years older than the actors playing the other hobbits. But in the stills I've seen so far, it seems to work--he's got a "young face"--so I'm still giving the benefit of the doubt on that one. I've never seen Billy Boyd act, so as of now all I can go on is the "look."

            --Trudy



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          • Michael Martinez
            ... How do you figure? Aragorn had another 120 years to live when Frodo and the boy met up with him. ... I m unaware of any Tolkien text which indicates this.
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 10, 2001
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              --- In mythsoc@y..., Steve Schaper <sschaper@U...> wrote:
              >
              > Mortenson is about 20 years too young.

              How do you figure? Aragorn had another 120 years to live when Frodo
              and the boy met up with him.

              > And where did the goatees come in? Dunedain aped the Elves, so
              > they shaved.

              I'm unaware of any Tolkien text which indicates this. Would you mind
              sharing the source of your information?
            • Michael Martinez
              ... I love Francesca Annis, but in the book Galadriel appears as a young maiden. She just happens to be thousands of years old. To be more faithful to
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 10, 2001
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                --- In mythsoc@y..., WendellWag@a... wrote:
                > It seems to me that all the parts were cast too young. I had
                > thought that Galadriel should be played by some 50-ish bombshell
                > actress - Susan Sarandon, Catherine Deneuve, Francesca Annis, or
                > some such. Having her played by the 30-to 31-year-old (as of the
                > time of the filming) Cate Blanchett is weird.

                I love Francesca Annis, but in the book Galadriel appears as a young
                maiden. She just happens to be thousands of years old.

                To be more faithful to Tolkien, they should have gotten someone about
                20-24 to play Galadriel, but I think they wanted a tinge of maturity.

                I get the impression that Peter Jackson wanted the (principal)
                Hobbits to seem a bit child-like yet mature. Hence, he went for
                young actors. Bilbo, of course, is very old in the story.

                If, as some spy reports suggest, only a few months pass between
                Bilbo's handing on of the Ring and Gandalf's return, it will be a
                major blunder because the effect of the Ring on Frodo's perceived
                longevity will be lost. There is literally no difference
                (technically) between saying "months later" and "17 years later", and
                the only excuse I can imagine might be served up is that they
                couldn't afford to film Hobbiton with two sets of extras (or two sets
                of actors for the principal characters).

                But I am hoping that timeless Frodo will be preserved. That is an
                important part of the story, even if it requires explanation (which
                it often does) for many people. The Ring's effect on Frodo should be
                subtle enough that the movie audiences won't see rapid changes in his
                behavior, but distinct enough that by the time he (presumably) claims
                the Ring, it is understandable that he is no longer in control of
                himself.
              • Michael Martinez
                ... As with so many aspects of Middle-earth, Tolkien changed his mind on the physical appearance of Elves. Hence, we have bearded and ancient Cirdan greeting
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 10, 2001
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                  --- In mythsoc@y..., "Trudy Shaw" <tgshaw@e...> wrote:

                  > That's something I've always kind of wondered about--if Elves are
                  > immortal, do they reach a certain apparent age and then
                  > stop "aging," or do they age continuously but very slowly?

                  As with so many aspects of Middle-earth, Tolkien changed his mind on
                  the physical appearance of Elves. Hence, we have bearded and ancient
                  Cirdan greeting the departees at Mithlond and in the last year of his
                  life he writes a note saying that the beardlessness of Elves was a
                  trait inherited by the Lords of Dol Amroth who were descended from
                  Mithrellas.

                  In the book, both Galadriel and Arwen have the appearance of young
                  maidens.

                  The hardest characterization for the actors will probably be Frodo.
                  His character undergoes a tremendous stress and change, and he may
                  seem very young but he is (in the book) a very mature Hobbit. I
                  can't recall when or if anyone has ever gotten an Oscar nomination
                  for a fantasy movie performance, but they may have a couple of
                  candidates come out of these movies simply because of the demands of
                  the roles.
                • Sweet & Tender Hooligan
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                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 10, 2001
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                    > I can't recall when or if anyone has ever gotten an Oscar
                    > nomination for a fantasy movie performance, but they may
                    > have a couple of candidates come out of these movies simply
                    > because of the demands of the roles.

                    Hah! If the Academy deigns to award even a single /nomination/ to these
                    actors, I will eat my hat.

                    Ever the pessimist,

                    -

                    s&th
                    cirhsein@...

                    If life gives you lemons, squeeze the juice into
                    a watergun and shoot other people in the eyes.



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                  • Steve Dufour
                    ... aging than the men. Elrond certainly looked middle-aged. But then he was half Man. Oh well, good question. I m hoping for several Oscars for the LOTR
                    Message 9 of 11 , Aug 10, 2001
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                      > > > That's something I've always kind of
                      wondered > about--if Elves are > > immortal, do they
                      reach a certain apparent age and > then > > stop
                      "aging," or do they age continuously but very >
                      slowly? >.....The ladies seem to show less effects of
                      aging than the men. Elrond certainly looked
                      middle-aged. But then he was half Man. Oh well, good
                      question. I'm hoping for several Oscars for the LOTR
                      movies. -Steve

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                    • Michael Martinez
                      ... They may not want to recognize these actors. We may not get award- worthy performances. But from what I ve been hearing, both publicly and privately, for
                      Message 10 of 11 , Aug 10, 2001
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                        --- In mythsoc@y..., "Sweet & Tender Hooligan" <cirhsein@y...> wrote:
                        > > I can't recall when or if anyone has ever gotten an Oscar
                        > > nomination for a fantasy movie performance, but they may
                        > > have a couple of candidates come out of these movies simply
                        > > because of the demands of the roles.
                        >
                        > Hah! If the Academy deigns to award even a single /nomination/ to
                        > these actors, I will eat my hat.

                        They may not want to recognize these actors. We may not get award-
                        worthy performances. But from what I've been hearing, both publicly
                        and privately, for the past year-and-a-half, there have been some
                        very good performances.

                        And then we have the beloved Liv Tyler screaming and ducking behind
                        Viggo as thirty Orcs come charging at her, not mention whacking her
                        poor horse with a sword. But, as I pointed out previously, I believe
                        the focus of her role in the films has been changed drastically.

                        And as long as the horse wasn't hurt, I'd watch her wield a sword any
                        day. But that's just me. :)
                      • Trudy Shaw
                        ... From: Michael Martinez To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 10:22 AM Subject: [mythsoc] Re: Digest Number 657 The hardest
                        Message 11 of 11 , Aug 11, 2001
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                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Michael Martinez
                          To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 10:22 AM
                          Subject: [mythsoc] Re: Digest Number 657


                          The hardest characterization for the actors will probably be Frodo.
                          His character undergoes a tremendous stress and change, and he may
                          seem very young but he is (in the book) a very mature Hobbit. I
                          can't recall when or if anyone has ever gotten an Oscar nomination
                          for a fantasy movie performance, but they may have a couple of
                          candidates come out of these movies simply because of the demands of
                          the roles.


                          I'd be kind of surprised if any Oscars for acting came out of Fellowship of the Ring (special effects or something like that, pretty likely). By the time we get to Return of the King it would seem more possible as the roles (especially Frodo's) become more demanding as time goes on.

                          I'm not familiar with most of the actors, but since I've always had a particular fondness for Frodo--and was concerned about how the part would be handled--for the past year I've been trying to find and watch every Elijah Wood movie I could. I've seen 15 of them now, and am quite optimistic. He's "adequate" in roles that are played more broadly, but he's in his element playing characters who are subtle and interiorized. I may "eat my hat" on this one, but I'm looking forward to seeing what he does with my favorite fictional person.

                          --Trudy






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