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Re: [mythsoc] Magic in M.e.

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  • Margaret Dean
    ... Have you read the Debate of Finrod and Andreth in MORGOTH S RING (vol. 10 in the History of Middle-earth series)? Parts of it have something of the
    Message 1 of 4 , Jul 29, 2001
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      Trudy Shaw wrote:

      > Occasionally I've wondered if Elves in Tolkien's cosmos talk
      > about "Mortal magic." Is the connection mortals have to an
      > existence *beyond* the created world so natural to them that
      > they don't recognize its wonder? Do the Elves marvel at it--
      > because it's not part of their experience?

      Have you read the "Debate of Finrod and Andreth" in MORGOTH'S
      RING (vol. 10 in the History of Middle-earth series)? Parts of
      it have something of the flavor of what you describe, though it's
      not put in terms of "magic."


      --Margaret Dean
      <margdean@...>
    • Trudy Shaw
      I can t manage to buy--or read--all the volumes at once (I have about half of them), but this is the nth time someone has specifically mentioned _Morgoth s
      Message 2 of 4 , Jul 30, 2001
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        I can't manage to buy--or read--all the volumes at once (I have about half of them), but this is the nth time someone has specifically mentioned _Morgoth's Ring_ to me, so it looks like that will be my next stop. Thanks. -- Trudy
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Margaret Dean
        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 7:50 PM
        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Magic in M.e.


        Trudy Shaw wrote:

        > Occasionally I've wondered if Elves in Tolkien's cosmos talk
        > about "Mortal magic." Is the connection mortals have to an
        > existence *beyond* the created world so natural to them that
        > they don't recognize its wonder? Do the Elves marvel at it--
        > because it's not part of their experience?

        Have you read the "Debate of Finrod and Andreth" in MORGOTH'S
        RING (vol. 10 in the History of Middle-earth series)? Parts of
        it have something of the flavor of what you describe, though it's
        not put in terms of "magic."


        --Margaret Dean
        <margdean@...>

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      • alexeik@aol.com
        In a message dated 7/29/1 10:15:24 PM, tRudy Shaw wrote:
        Message 3 of 4 , Jul 30, 2001
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          In a message dated 7/29/1 10:15:24 PM, tRudy Shaw wrote:

          <<I'm not sure we Catholics have a lock on sacramental spirituality
          (Anglicans and Lutherans, at least, use the term,>>

          And let's not leave out all of the Eastern Churches!!

          <<--I think Ginger and Michael are using "incarnation of God" in two
          different senses, in that Ginger is speaking of a more general presence of
          God in the physical reality of creation, and Michael of the very specific
          "Incarnation" (with a capital "I") of God becoming human in the person of
          Jesus. (Let me know if I've misinterpreted.) It's this second meaning that
          Tolkien would be referring to when he says there is none in his mythology
          because it's set before the time of Christ.>>

          I think the word you actually want for the first meaning is "immanence" --
          "incarnation" implies actually putting on flesh.
          Alexei
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