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[mythsoc] Hobbits in Hollywood

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  • D & L Mattole
    The last page of tomorrow s New York Times s Book Review (4/22/01) includes an article about Tolkien with a pseudo-review of T.A. Shippey s biography. The last
    Message 1 of 14 , Apr 21 7:49 PM
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      The last page of tomorrow's New York Times's Book Review (4/22/01) includes
      an article about Tolkien with a pseudo-review of T.A. Shippey's biography.
      The last couple of paragraphs might cause some discussion and I was
      wondering what anyone else who's read the article thinks. Among other
      things the articles author writes;

      " 'The Lord of the Rings' was written for adults, but unless you're a child
      it's difficult to accept its mounting portentousness without protest, as the
      price of entry into the longed-for past....as a storyteller [Tokien], he was
      betrayed by the very pedantry that made his creations memorable. He
      wandered over to the dark side, like an Elf-Lord gone bad. He formulated a
      high-minded belief in the importance of his mission as a literary
      preservationist, which turns out to be death to literature itself."

      Wow, seems a bit extreme to me.
    • Steve Dufour
      Sounds kind of weird. Maybe the writer is suffering from the same syndrome he s describing. ... __________________________________________________ Do You
      Message 2 of 14 , Apr 21 10:29 PM
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        Sounds kind of weird. Maybe the writer is suffering
        from the same syndrome he's describing. --- D & L
        Mattole <mattole@...> wrote: > The last page
        of tomorrow's New York Times's Book > Review (4/22/01)
        includes > an article about Tolkien with a
        pseudo-review of > T.A. Shippey's biography. > The
        last couple of paragraphs might cause some >
        discussion and I was > wondering what anyone else
        who's read the article > thinks. Among other > things
        the articles author writes; > > " 'The Lord of the
        Rings' was written for adults, > but unless you're a
        child > it's difficult to accept its mounting
        portentousness > without protest, as the > price of
        entry into the longed-for past....as a > storyteller
        [Tokien], he was > betrayed by the very pedantry that
        made his > creations memorable. He > wandered over to
        the dark side, like an Elf-Lord > gone bad. He
        formulated a > high-minded belief in the importance of
        his mission > as a literary > preservationist, which
        turns out to be death to > lite

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      • Wayne G. Hammond
        ... This is also (presently) available online, at http://www.nytimes.com/books/yr/mo/day/bookend/bookend.html. The reviewer actually makes several valid
        Message 3 of 14 , Apr 22 4:58 AM
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          >The last page of tomorrow's New York Times's Book Review (4/22/01) includes
          >an article about Tolkien with a pseudo-review of T.A. Shippey's biography.

          This is also (presently) available online, at
          http://www.nytimes.com/books/yr/mo/day/bookend/bookend.html.

          The reviewer actually makes several valid points, but can't get past her
          personal dislike for Tolkien. I suspect that she's also reacting to the
          subtitle of Shippey's new book, "Author of the Century" (the publisher's
          choice, not his), which is almost an invitation for critics to dispute.

          Wayne Hammond
        • David J. Finnamore
          ... You mean you agree with him to a certain extent, you just think he overstated the case? If so, how so? Is it widely thought that Tolkien s purpose in
          Message 4 of 14 , Apr 22 12:43 PM
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            D & L Mattole (or one of them :-) wrote:


            > a pseudo-review of T.A. Shippey's biography.
            > The last couple of paragraphs might cause some discussion and I was
            > wondering what anyone else who's read the article thinks. Among other
            > things the articles author writes;
            >
            > " 'The Lord of the Rings' was written for adults, but unless you're a child
            > it's difficult to accept its mounting portentousness without protest, as the
            > price of entry into the longed-for past....as a storyteller [Tokien], he was
            > betrayed by the very pedantry that made his creations memorable. He
            > wandered over to the dark side, like an Elf-Lord gone bad. He formulated a
            > high-minded belief in the importance of his mission as a literary
            > preservationist, which turns out to be death to literature itself."
            >
            > Wow, seems a bit extreme to me.

            You mean you agree with him to a certain extent, you just think he overstated the case? If so, how so? Is it widely thought that
            Tolkien's purpose in LotR was the preservation of certain forms of literature? I think he was only infusing his tale with some good
            elements from ancient European literature, not recreating them as faux artifacts.

            I never found it "difficult to accept its mounting portentousness." That's one characteristic that struck me as most charming. And it
            seems to me that an adult would more easily appreciate that than would a child, so I'm confused about his analysis on that point. I did
            find it difficult on first reading of LotR to understand why the narrative was occasionally interrupted by moderately long poems about
            seemingly unconnected events. But of course, once I read the Silmarillion and Lost Tales, those poems became extremely meaningful and
            exciting. Maybe the reviewer above is unfamiliar with the history of M.e.

            I'm not quite clear on what he means by "turns out to be death to literature itself." "The day the Literature died," huh? Long live the
            Literature.

            --
            David J. Finnamore
            Nashville, TN, USA
            http://personal.bna.bellsouth.net/bna/d/f/dfin/index.html
            --
          • ERATRIANO@aol.com
            In a message dated 04/21/01 11:13:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mattole@earthlink.net writes: A LOT extreme. I am still
            Message 5 of 14 , Apr 22 7:06 PM
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              In a message dated 04/21/01 11:13:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
              mattole@... writes:

              << Wow, seems a bit extreme to me. >>

              A LOT extreme. I am still ruminating on the question of Elves that dont'
              really die.. this is like an aggravating curve ball. I hope some of our
              better spoken members can bite back!

              As for the Elves thing, the elves that don't die like seeds to bear fruit, to
              me they seem in that light to be more or less tragic figures. But I need to
              read and reread more about the Tolkien mythology. Perhaps they are more like
              angels... not that they are not fallen (because some fell, right?) but they
              are just sort of on a different plane of existence from Men.

              Lizzie
            • ERATRIANO@aol.com
              In a message dated 04/22/01 3:44:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, daeron@bellsouth.net writes:
              Message 6 of 14 , Apr 23 6:14 AM
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                In a message dated 04/22/01 3:44:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                daeron@... writes:

                << I did find it difficult on first reading of LotR to understand why the
                narrative was occasionally interrupted by moderately long poems about
                seemingly unconnected events. But of course, once I read the Silmarillion
                and Lost Tales, those poems became extremely meaningful and exciting. >>

                When I first read LOTR as a youngster, I knew the poems were somehow
                connected and didn't question it; perhaps I was prepared by Kipling's Jungle
                Books and their poems. To this day, I do not really consider a novel,
                especially a fantasy novel, as 110% complete, so to speak, without verse
                scattered throughout. And I do the same myself. Life is like that anyway, a
                mixed media event.

                Lizzie
              • David J. Finnamore
                ... My wife makes part of her living as a commercial writer. She recently has been asked to do some book reviews. To her dismay, she has learned that the
                Message 7 of 14 , Apr 23 8:18 AM
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                  Wayne Hammond wrote:


                  > >The last page of tomorrow's New York Times's Book Review (4/22/01) includes
                  > >an article about Tolkien with a pseudo-review of T.A. Shippey's biography.
                  >
                  > This is also (presently) available online, at
                  > http://www.nytimes.com/books/yr/mo/day/bookend/bookend.html.
                  >
                  > The reviewer actually makes several valid points, but can't get past her
                  > personal dislike for Tolkien. I suspect that she's also reacting to the
                  > subtitle of Shippey's new book, "Author of the Century" (the publisher's
                  > choice, not his), which is almost an invitation for critics to dispute.

                  My wife makes part of her living as a commercial writer. She recently has been asked to do some book reviews. To her dismay, she has
                  learned that the current trend is toward negativity - most magazines are reluctant to accept a net-positive book review. You're only
                  supposed to submit reviews for books you don't like. That could help explain the extreme harshness of tone in this review. She says if you
                  want to get a more realistic slant, read consumer reviews, such as those on Amazon.com.

                  --
                  David J. Finnamore
                  Nashville, TN, USA
                  http://personal.bna.bellsouth.net/bna/d/f/dfin/index.html
                  --
                • David S. Bratman
                  ... That surprises me considerably. I wonder what publication this is, and how widespread this trend is supposed to be. Apart from the hostile literary
                  Message 8 of 14 , Apr 23 9:50 AM
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                    At 08:18 AM 4/23/2001 , David J. Finnamore wrote:

                    >My wife makes part of her living as a commercial writer. She recently has
                    >been asked to do some book reviews. To her dismay, she has
                    >learned that the current trend is toward negativity - most magazines are
                    >reluctant to accept a net-positive book review. You're only
                    >supposed to submit reviews for books you don't like. That could help
                    >explain the extreme harshness of tone in this review.

                    That surprises me considerably. I wonder what publication this is, and how
                    widespread this trend is supposed to be. Apart from the hostile literary
                    establishment attitude towards Tolkien, the New York Times gets most of its
                    reviews from specialists in the field of the book, so intramural cattiness
                    is common. But for the general run of newspapers and magazines, which get
                    their reviews from full- or part-time book reviewers, not from specialists,
                    the attitude has always been "We have a limited amount of space to run
                    reviews: let's emphasize the books we think people will want to read." Bad
                    reviews in these publications tend to be of books so prominent they can't
                    be avoided, or of books the reviewer is using to make a more general point
                    about the state of the field. (Norman Spinrad in _Asimov's_ does that a lot.)

                    There's also a more general problem that few people will be willing to
                    review regularly in a field unless they have a widespread liking for it.
                    In one respect that's good - who would want to read reviews of fantasy by
                    someone who hated fantasy altogether? - but it does make it hard for people
                    with selective tastes to figure out which of the reviewed books they'd
                    actually like, because the reviewers' distinctions often cut along
                    different lines. What "If you'll like X, you'll like Y" often really means
                    is "X and Y have certain obvious characteristics in common," but since the
                    reviewer likes not only X and Y but Z and everything else too, s/he doesn't
                    really know whether those common characteristics are the cause of X's
                    appeal or not. For X, substitute "Tolkien", and for Y, "Donaldson" or
                    "Jordan", and you may see the problem.

                    >She says if you
                    >want to get a more realistic slant, read consumer reviews, such as those on
                    >Amazon.com.

                    Some of those can be good. But others should be avoided. And you can't
                    always tell which ones. The sound of axes, both positive and negative
                    ones, being ground in amazon.com can be deafening.

                    David Bratman
                  • Steve Dufour
                    Thanks David, very interesting. - ... http://personal.bna.bellsouth.net/bna/d/f/dfin/index.html ... __________________________________________________ Do You
                    Message 9 of 14 , Apr 23 12:06 PM
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                      Thanks David, very interesting.

                      -
                      > My wife makes part of her living as a commercial
                      > writer. She recently has been asked to do some book
                      > reviews. To her dismay, she has
                      > learned that the current trend is toward negativity
                      > - most magazines are reluctant to accept a
                      > net-positive book review. You're only
                      > supposed to submit reviews for books you don't like.
                      > That could help explain the extreme harshness of
                      > tone in this review. She says if you
                      > want to get a more realistic slant, read consumer
                      > reviews, such as those on Amazon.com.
                      >
                      > --
                      > David J. Finnamore
                      > Nashville, TN, USA
                      >
                      http://personal.bna.bellsouth.net/bna/d/f/dfin/index.html
                      > --
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      __________________________________________________
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                    • Trudy Shaw
                      ... From: David J. Finnamore To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 2:43 PM Subject: [mythsoc] Re: Hobbits in Hollywood Is it widely thought
                      Message 10 of 14 , Apr 23 7:45 PM
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                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: David J. Finnamore
                        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 2:43 PM
                        Subject: [mythsoc] Re: Hobbits in Hollywood


                        Is it widely thought that
                        Tolkien's purpose in LotR was the preservation of certain forms of literature? I think he was only infusing his tale with some good
                        elements from ancient European literature, not recreating them as faux artifacts.

                        --
                        David J. Finnamore
                        Nashville, TN, USA
                        http://personal.bna.bellsouth.net/bna/d/f/dfin/index.html
                        --

                        Maybe the writer of this review had read the one I ran into online yesterday, in which the reviewer says exactly that--except in what, I guess, is supposed to be a positive way. It was posted on Epinions, but rather than give the arm's-length URL for the specific page, I'll suggest finding it the way I did--through http://sharpwriter.com/aaa.content/ (Sharpwriter's monthly newsletter) then clicking on "Power and Grace Abiding: The Lord of the Rings."

                        According to this review, in order to "fully appreciate" LotR, a reader must be familiar with Ruskin, Goerthe, Thomas More, Pindar, Schiller, Aby Warburg, Winckelmann, Tacitus, Spenser, Aristotle, Vergil, Homer, Milton, Thomas Acquinas, Theocritus, Columella, Dunbar, Chaucer, Hooker, Gibbon, Fenelon, Coleridge, Newman, Heine, and Burke, (I hope I didn't miss anyone!) along with Beowulf, the Heimskringla, the Kalevala, the Finnsburgh Fight, the Orkney Saga, the Eddas, and Nordic, Celtic, and pre-Arthurian mythology.

                        The implication I got from the reviewer was that Tolkien consciously included references to all of these various works and philosophers, but that _may_ be overstating it. He does give a few quotes to show similarities. He's very heavy on philosophy, which has never seemed to me to be one of Tolkien's main passions.

                        Anyway, the writer is kind enough to say that "Certainly there is a broad sense in which LOTR maybe [sic] and has been enjoyed relatively thoughtlessly by all sorts and conditions of readers [meaning, as I understand it, anyone who isn't familiar with everyone/thing listed above]... Surely thousands have wallowed in the work's surpassing richness with but the vaguest understanding of its truths."

                        The entire review took seven pages to print out. (Of course I printed it out--do you think I could _remember_ all those names?) By the end of it, I was wondering if it was supposed to be satiric.

                        Ah, well, guess I'll get back to wallowing in the work's surpassing richness with the rest of the mouthbreathers (the name he gives those who don't, upon reading Gandalf's musings on the temptation to use the Palantir, "...hear the clear echo of Pindar's famous cry regarding the lost temple of Delphi, 'O Muses, with what patterns did the able hands of Hephaestus and Athena decorate the temple?'.")

                        This review, by the way, was supposed to make people want to buy LotR. I don't think it would have had that effect on me.

                        Droolingly yours,
                        Trudy Shaw







                        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



                        The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org

                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Steve Dufour
                        Hi Trudy, I couldn t get to the story by your link. I did visit David s site though. Could you maybe give a link direct to it. Thanks. ...
                        Message 11 of 14 , Apr 23 9:12 PM
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                          Hi Trudy, I couldn't get to the story by your link. I
                          did visit David's site though. Could you maybe give a
                          link direct to it. Thanks. --- Trudy Shaw
                          <tgshaw@...> wrote: > > ----- Original
                          Message ----- > From: David J. Finnamore > To:
                          mythsoc@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, April 22,
                          2001 2:43 PM > Subject: [mythsoc] Re: Hobbits in
                          Hollywood > > > Is it widely thought that >
                          Tolkien's purpose in LotR was the preservation of >
                          certain forms of literature? I think he was only >
                          infusing his tale with some good > elements from
                          ancient European literature, not > recreating them as
                          faux artifacts. > > -- > David J. Finnamore >
                          Nashville, TN, USA > >
                          http://personal.bna.bellsouth.net/bna/d/f/dfin/index.html >
                          -- > > Maybe the writer of this review had read
                          the one I > ran into online yesterday, in which the
                          reviewer > says exactly that--except in what, I guess,
                          is > supposed to be a positive way. It was posted on >
                          Epinions, but rather than give the arm's-length URL >
                          for the specific page, I'll suggest finding it the >
                          way I did--through >
                          http://sharpwriter.com/aaa.content/ (Sharpwriter's >
                          monthly newsletter) then clicking on "Power and >
                          Grace Abiding: The Lord of the Rings." > >
                          According to this review, in order to "fully >
                          appreciate" LotR, a reader must be familiar with >
                          Ruskin, Goerthe, Thomas More, Pindar, Schiller, Aby >
                          Warburg, Winckelmann, Tacitus, Spenser, Aristotle, >
                          Vergil, Homer, Milton, Thomas Acquinas, Theocritus, >
                          Columella, Dunbar, Chaucer, Hooker, Gibbon, Fenelon, >
                          Coleridge, Newman, Heine, and Burke, (I hope I >
                          didn't miss anyone!) along with Beowulf, the >
                          Heimskringla, the Kalevala, the Finnsburgh Fight, >
                          the Orkney Saga, the Eddas, and Nordic, Celtic, and >
                          pre-Arthurian mythology. > > The implication I got
                          from the reviewer was that > Tolkien consciously
                          included references to all of > these various works
                          and philosophers, but that _may_ > be overstating it.
                          He does give a few quotes to show > similarities. He's
                          very heavy on philosophy, which > has never seemed to
                          me to be one of Tolkien's main > passions. > >
                          Anyway, the writer is kind enough to say that >
                          "Certainly there is a broad sense in which LOTR >
                          maybe [sic] and has been enjoyed relatively >
                          thoughtlessly by all sorts and conditions of readers >
                          [meaning, as I understand it, anyone who isn't >
                          familiar with everyone/thing listed above]... Surely >
                          thousands have wallowed in the work's surpassing >
                          richness with but the vaguest understanding of its >
                          truths." > > The entire review took seven pages
                          to print out. > (Of course I printed it out--do you
                          think I could > _remember_ all those names?) By the
                          end of it, I was > wondering if it was supposed to be
                          satiric. > > Ah, well, guess I'll get back to
                          wallowing in the > work's surpassing richness with the
                          rest of the > mouthbreathers (the name he gives those
                          who don't, > upon reading Gandalf's musings on the
                          temptation to > use the Palantir, "...hear the clear
                          echo of > Pindar's famous cry regarding the lost
                          temple of > Delphi, 'O Muses, with what patterns did
                          the able > hands of Hephaestus and Athena decorate
                          the > temple?'.") > > This review, by the way, was
                          supposed to make > people want to buy LotR. I don't
                          think it would have > had that effect on me. > >
                          Droolingly yours, > Trudy Shaw > > > > >
                          > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > >
                          > > The Mythopoeic Society website >
                          http://www.mythsoc.org > > Your use of Yahoo!
                          Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > Terms of Service. >
                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have
                          been > removed] > >

                          __________________________________________________
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                        • Trudy Shaw
                          Okay, I ll give it a shot: http://www.epinions.com/book-review-657-2412D7B2-3A19BE48-prod5?sp=isyn ... From: Steve Dufour To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                          Message 12 of 14 , Apr 24 5:43 AM
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                            Okay, I'll give it a shot:

                            http://www.epinions.com/book-review-657-2412D7B2-3A19BE48-prod5?sp=isyn
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Steve Dufour
                            To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 11:12 PM
                            Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: Hobbits in Hollywood


                            Hi Trudy, I couldn't get to the story by your link. I
                            did visit David's site though. Could you maybe give a
                            link direct to it. Thanks. --- Trudy Shaw
                            <tgshaw@...> wrote: > > ----- Original
                            Message ----- > From: David J. Finnamore > To:
                            mythsoc@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, April 22,
                            2001 2:43 PM > Subject: [mythsoc] Re: Hobbits in
                            Hollywood > > > Is it widely thought that >
                            Tolkien's purpose in LotR was the preservation of >
                            certain forms of literature? I think he was only >
                            infusing his tale with some good > elements from
                            ancient European literature, not > recreating them as
                            faux artifacts. > > -- > David J. Finnamore >
                            Nashville, TN, USA > >
                            http://personal.bna.bellsouth.net/bna/d/f/dfin/index.html >
                            -- > > Maybe the writer of this review had read
                            the one I > ran into online yesterday, in which the
                            reviewer > says exactly that--except in what, I guess,
                            is > supposed to be a positive way. It was posted on >
                            Epinions, but rather than give the arm's-length URL >
                            for the specific page, I'll suggest finding it the >
                            way I did--through >
                            http://sharpwriter.com/aaa.content/ (Sharpwriter's >
                            monthly newsletter) then clicking on "Power and >
                            Grace Abiding: The Lord of the Rings." > >
                            use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • David J. Finnamore
                            ... It surprised me, too. The particular publications she was looking to submit to are Christian Retailing and Marketplace (also about Christian retailing).
                            Message 13 of 14 , Apr 24 9:28 AM
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                              I wrote:

                              > >learned that the current trend is toward negativity - most magazines are
                              > >reluctant to accept a net-positive book review. You're only
                              > >supposed to submit reviews for books you don't like.

                              David Bratman replied:

                              > That surprises me considerably. I wonder what publication this is, and how
                              > widespread this trend is supposed to be.

                              It surprised me, too. The particular publications she was looking to submit to are Christian Retailing and Marketplace (also about Christian retailing). But she got the idea mainly from websites and discussion lists about commercial writing generally.

                              --
                              David J. Finnamore
                              Nashville, TN, USA
                              http://personal.bna.bellsouth.net/bna/d/f/dfin/index.html
                              --
                            • James P. Robinson III
                              Certainly, JRRT draws on, at least, some of these in TLoR, but suggesting that he actually makes reference to their work which he intended the reader to
                              Message 14 of 14 , Apr 25 8:27 AM
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                                Certainly, JRRT draws on, at least, some of these in TLoR, but suggesting
                                that he actually makes reference to their work which he intended the reader
                                to understand as references (I believe) severely undermines the idea of
                                Tolkien's work as subcreation, an intent which is, I believe, made explicit
                                through much of his work and letters. Ruskin, Pindar, etc. do not exist in
                                Middle-Earth.

                                Jim

                                As the clock struck 09:45 PM 4/23/2001 -0500, Trudy Shaw took pen in hand
                                and wrote:
                                > --
                                > David J. Finnamore
                                > Nashville, TN, USA
                                > http://personal.bna.bellsouth.net/bna/d/f/dfin/index.html
                                > --
                                >
                                > Maybe the writer of this review had read the one I ran into online
                                > yesterday, in which the reviewer says exactly that--except in what, I
                                > guess, is supposed to be a positive way. It was posted on Epinions, but
                                > rather than give the arm's-length URL for the specific page, I'll suggest
                                > finding it the way I did--through http://sharpwriter.com/aaa.content/
                                > (Sharpwriter's monthly newsletter) then clicking on "Power and Grace
                                > Abiding: The Lord of the Rings."
                                >
                                > According to this review, in order to "fully appreciate" LotR, a reader
                                > must be familiar with Ruskin, Goerthe, Thomas More, Pindar, Schiller, Aby
                                > Warburg, Winckelmann, Tacitus, Spenser, Aristotle, Vergil, Homer, Milton,
                                > Thomas Acquinas, Theocritus, Columella, Dunbar, Chaucer, Hooker, Gibbon,
                                > Fenelon, Coleridge, Newman, Heine, and Burke, (I hope I didn't miss
                                > anyone!) along with Beowulf, the Heimskringla, the Kalevala, the
                                > Finnsburgh Fight, the Orkney Saga, the Eddas, and Nordic, Celtic, and
                                > pre-Arthurian mythology.
                                >
                                > The implication I got from the reviewer was that Tolkien consciously
                                > included references to all of these various works and philosophers, but
                                > that _may_ be overstating it. He does give a few quotes to show
                                > similarities. He's very heavy on philosophy, which has never seemed to me
                                > to be one of Tolkien's main passions.
                                >
                                > Anyway, the writer is kind enough to say that "Certainly there is a
                                > broad sense in which LOTR maybe [sic] and has been enjoyed relatively
                                > thoughtlessly by all sorts and conditions of readers [meaning, as I
                                > understand it, anyone who isn't familiar with everyone/thing listed
                                > above]... Surely thousands have wallowed in the work's surpassing
                                > richness with but the vaguest understanding of its truths."
                                >
                                > The entire review took seven pages to print out. (Of course I printed
                                > it out--do you think I could _remember_ all those names?) By the end of
                                > it, I was wondering if it was supposed to be satiric.
                                >
                                > Ah, well, guess I'll get back to wallowing in the work's surpassing
                                > richness with the rest of the mouthbreathers (the name he gives those who
                                > don't, upon reading Gandalf's musings on the temptation to use the
                                > Palantir, "...hear the clear echo of Pindar's famous cry regarding the
                                > lost temple of Delphi, 'O Muses, with what patterns did the able hands of
                                > Hephaestus and Athena decorate the temple?'.")
                                >
                                > This review, by the way, was supposed to make people want to buy LotR.
                                > I don't think it would have had that effect on me.
                                >
                                > Droolingly yours,
                                > Trudy Shaw
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