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Re: [mythsoc] Charles Williams

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  • Grace E. Funk
    To Cornelia Penner re Charles Williams co-inherence. Someone will refer you to Lewis biographies/ autobiographical writings. I suggest you discover the works
    Message 1 of 25 , Feb 7, 2001
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      To Cornelia Penner re Charles Williams' co-inherence. Someone will refer
      you to Lewis' biographies/ autobiographical writings. I suggest you
      discover the works of Elizabeth Gouge, and in particular "The Heart of
      the Family". There are several examples, as: "He did not know what he
      had given the child - the freedom from pain that he might have had in
      his last moments, perhaps, to give her lifelong freedom from some shape
      of fear which haunted her..." One of the characters sends his "peace" to
      another, and receives in return a burden of fatigue and fear and
      despair. Grace.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Croft, Janet B
      Might it be worth nominating for our awards, even though we haven t seen it yet? I guess it s not likely to get to you before tomorrow s deadline. Janet Janet
      Message 2 of 25 , Feb 27, 2003
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        Might it be worth nominating for our awards, even though we haven't seen it
        yet? I guess it's not likely to get to you before tomorrow's deadline.

        Janet



        Janet Brennan Croft
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        -----Original Message-----
        From: jchristopher@... [mailto:jchristopher@...]
        Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 10:13 AM
        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [mythsoc] Charles Williams


        My copy of _The Detective Fiction Reviews_ was just shipped by Amazon.com
        according to an email, so the book is now available.

        --Joe



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      • jchristopher@tarleton.edu
        My copy of _The Detective Fiction Reviews_ was just shipped by Amazon.com according to an email, so the book is now available. --Joe
        Message 3 of 25 , Feb 27, 2003
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          My copy of _The Detective Fiction Reviews_ was just shipped by Amazon.com
          according to an email, so the book is now available.

          --Joe
        • David S. Bratman
          It s a 2003 book, so it wouldn t be eligible. By our 3-year eligibility period for scholarship, it would be eligible in 2004-06, so don t worry about missing
          Message 4 of 25 , Feb 27, 2003
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            It's a 2003 book, so it wouldn't be eligible. By our 3-year eligibility
            period for scholarship, it would be eligible in 2004-06, so don't worry
            about missing the boat.

            But remember, this is an Inklings scholarship award, so you'd be nominating
            the book for the quality of Jared Lobdell's editing and supplementary
            material, not for the value of having Williams's texts reprinted. The only
            such books that have ever won the MFA are Doug Anderson's _Annotated
            Hobbit_ and Christina Scull & Wayne Hammond's _Roverandom_, so our
            standards for such work are pretty high. Digging out rare material,
            dressing it up, and publishing it, are worthy acts, but perhaps one needs
            to do more than that to deserve an MSA. (Mind you, I haven't seen the book
            so I don't know how much Jared actually did.)

            - David Bratman

            At 08:08 AM 2/27/2003 , Janet wrote:
            >Might it be worth nominating for our awards, even though we haven't seen it
            >yet? I guess it's not likely to get to you before tomorrow's deadline.
            >
            >-----Original Message-----
            >From: jchristopher@... [mailto:jchristopher@...]
            >
            >My copy of _The Detective Fiction Reviews_ was just shipped by Amazon.com
            >according to an email, so the book is now available.
          • Croft, Janet B
            D oh -- right, it is a 2003 book and not eligible this year. Well, let s hope it s a good job of editing for the sake of Williams scholarship, and keep it in
            Message 5 of 25 , Feb 27, 2003
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              D'oh -- right, it is a 2003 book and not eligible this year. Well, let's
              hope it's a good job of editing for the sake of Williams scholarship, and
              keep it in mind for next year, then, if Lobdell did substantial work on it..

              Janet

              -----Original Message-----
              From: David S. Bratman [mailto:dbratman@...]
              Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 11:02 AM
              To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [mythsoc] Charles Williams


              It's a 2003 book, so it wouldn't be eligible. By our 3-year eligibility
              period for scholarship, it would be eligible in 2004-06, so don't worry
              about missing the boat.

              But remember, this is an Inklings scholarship award, so you'd be nominating
              the book for the quality of Jared Lobdell's editing and supplementary
              material, not for the value of having Williams's texts reprinted. The only
              such books that have ever won the MFA are Doug Anderson's _Annotated
              Hobbit_ and Christina Scull & Wayne Hammond's _Roverandom_, so our
              standards for such work are pretty high. Digging out rare material,
              dressing it up, and publishing it, are worthy acts, but perhaps one needs
              to do more than that to deserve an MSA. (Mind you, I haven't seen the book
              so I don't know how much Jared actually did.)

              - David Bratman

              At 08:08 AM 2/27/2003 , Janet wrote:
              >Might it be worth nominating for our awards, even though we haven't seen it
              >yet? I guess it's not likely to get to you before tomorrow's deadline.
              >
              >-----Original Message-----
              >From: jchristopher@... [mailto:jchristopher@...]
              >
              >My copy of _The Detective Fiction Reviews_ was just shipped by Amazon.com
              >according to an email, so the book is now available.



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            • pegasus48124
              I ve never had the pleasure of discovering the works of Charles Williams. Can someone recommend a good starting point? Mike Ethier (new member)
              Message 6 of 25 , Aug 9, 2004
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                I've never had the pleasure of discovering the works of Charles
                Williams. Can someone recommend a good starting point?
                Mike Ethier (new member)
              • dianejoy@earthlink.net
                *The Place of the Lion* is probably the most accessible of his works, though I also enjoyed *The Greater Trumps.* ---djb ... From: pegasus48124
                Message 7 of 25 , Aug 9, 2004
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                  *The Place of the Lion* is probably the most accessible of his works,
                  though I also enjoyed *The Greater Trumps.* ---djb

                  Original Message:
                  -----------------
                  From: pegasus48124 pegasus48124@...
                  Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 17:09:42 -0000
                  To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [mythsoc] Charles Williams


                  I've never had the pleasure of discovering the works of Charles
                  Williams. Can someone recommend a good starting point?
                  Mike Ethier (new member)




                  The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
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                • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
                  I really, really loved his Arthurian poems. In my opinion, there is no shame in reading them right along with a guide, say, CSLewis essays that are bound
                  Message 8 of 25 , Aug 9, 2004
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                    I really, really loved his Arthurian poems. In my opinion, there is no
                    shame in reading them right along with a guide, say, CSLewis' essays that
                    are bound with them in the Erdman volume, or some other. It makes them
                    that much more real. The novels are good too, but I think the poems are
                    better, more creative genius really.

                    I thought the URL at amazon was too long, here is a title:

                    Taliessin through Logres [and] The region of the summer stars,
                    by Charles Williams
                    (out of print, Erdman's publisher)

                    There are several copies at abebooks, search under
                    Taliessin
                    for Taliessin through Logres


                    This is Grail/Arthurian stuff. The novels treat of various supernatural
                    and Christian themes. If you have a favorite theme you are hankering
                    after, you might like to pick a first that way (Tarot, etc.).

                    For general info about the poems, google
                    Charles Williams Arthuriad
                    and take your pick.

                    Lizzie

                    Elizabeth Apgar Triano
                    lizziewriter@...
                    amor vincit omnia
                    *** Do visit www.groups.yahoo.com/group/DollsandArts ***
                  • Joan Marie Verba
                    Try The Masques of Amen House, available from the Mythopoeic Press at www.mythsoc.com. (In the interest of full disclosure, I was part of the team that
                    Message 9 of 25 , Aug 9, 2004
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                      Try The Masques of Amen House, available from the Mythopoeic Press at
                      www.mythsoc.com. (In the interest of full disclosure, I was part of the
                      team that published it. But I wouldn't have unless I thought it was a
                      worthwhile title.)

                      Joan
                      ******************************************
                      Joan Marie Verba
                      verba001@...
                      http://www.sff.net/people/Joan.Marie.Verba
                    • Stolzi
                      For me, the most accessible of the novels is War in Heaven. The poetry is NOT a good starting point. Diamond Proudbrook
                      Message 10 of 25 , Aug 9, 2004
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                        For me, the most accessible of the novels is "War in Heaven."

                        The poetry is NOT a good starting point.

                        Diamond Proudbrook
                      • jamcconney@aol.com
                        I agree with Diamond P. I started with War in Heaven and think it is the most accessible. My favorite is Descent into Hell (though I consider it structurally
                        Message 11 of 25 , Aug 9, 2004
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                          I agree with Diamond P. I started with War in Heaven and think it is the
                          most accessible. My favorite is Descent into Hell (though I consider it
                          structurally flawed) but it's probably not the one to start with (when you're ready
                          for it, it will lift you right off the chair). Also like The Greater Trumps
                          and All Hallows Eve, but never really got with The Place of the Lion.

                          I rather imagine we're all going to be widely separated on our favorites
                          (and un-favorites).

                          Anne


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Mari Dole
                          Yes, I agree, and the first sentence is a classic. Mari ... From: Stolzi [mailto:Stolzi@comcast.net] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 2:24 PM To:
                          Message 12 of 25 , Aug 9, 2004
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                            Yes, I agree, and the first sentence is a classic.

                            Mari



                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Stolzi [mailto:Stolzi@...]
                            Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 2:24 PM
                            To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Charles Williams


                            For me, the most accessible of the novels is "War in Heaven."

                            The poetry is NOT a good starting point.

                            Diamond Proudbrook




                            The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                          • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
                            Oh, I hope someone speaks up in defense of the Arthuriad overnight tonight. Or I will have to raise a fuss tomorrow. sleep tight, Lizzie Elizabeth Apgar Triano
                            Message 13 of 25 , Aug 9, 2004
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                              Oh, I hope someone speaks up in defense of the Arthuriad overnight tonight.
                              Or I will have to raise a fuss tomorrow.

                              sleep tight,

                              Lizzie

                              Elizabeth Apgar Triano
                              lizziewriter@...
                              amor vincit omnia
                              *** Do visit www.groups.yahoo.com/group/DollsandArts ***
                            • Stolzi
                              Thomas Howard has an online article on the no. 3 Inkling : http://tinyurl.com/5jske or go to http://www.touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=17-10-033-f
                              Message 14 of 25 , Dec 1, 2004
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                                Thomas Howard has an online article on the "no. 3 Inkling":

                                http://tinyurl.com/5jske

                                or go to

                                http://www.touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=17-10-033-f

                                There's a wonderful line in here

                                ' Williams unfailingly leads us all on what George Eliot called "a severe
                                mental scamper." '

                                I'm including a copy to Wingfold because part-way down Howard reaches the
                                question of GMD, Hell, and Heaven.


                                Diamond Proudbrook
                              • David Bratman
                                ... This is quite interesting, and entertaining. Howard is the Tom Shippey of Williams studies. On the difficulty of Williams s style, I cherish a review he
                                Message 15 of 25 , Dec 1, 2004
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                                  At 04:21 PM 12/1/2004 -0600, Stolzi wrote:

                                  >Thomas Howard has an online article on the "no. 3 Inkling":

                                  This is quite interesting, and entertaining. Howard is the Tom Shippey of
                                  Williams studies.

                                  On the difficulty of Williams's style, I cherish a review he wrote of
                                  Lewis's "Problem of Pain", which begins:

                                  "I shall not attempt to summarize here an already compact book. Mr.
                                  Lewis's prose is known, and those who know it would not thank me for
                                  translating it into mine."

                                  David Bratman
                                • John Davis
                                  Hi, (Not sure if this is off-topic of not - if so, many apologies...) Does anyone know of any other authors who write in a similar vein to Charles Williams?
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Feb 16, 2009
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                                    Hi,

                                    (Not sure if this is off-topic of not - if so, many apologies...)

                                    Does anyone know of any other authors who write in a similar vein to Charles Williams? Aside from Lewis' 'Hideous Strength', I don't know of any, which makes coming to the end of the last two of Williams' books rather sad...

                                    John

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                                  • Berni Phillips
                                    You might enjoy the books of Tim Powers. His _Declare_ is the novel which most shows his Christianity. (He s a Catholic Christian.) All of his novels are
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Feb 16, 2009
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                                      You might enjoy the books of Tim Powers. His _Declare_ is the novel which
                                      most shows his Christianity. (He's a Catholic Christian.) All of his
                                      novels are good. Also James Blaylock's novels might be your cup of tea,
                                      particularly _The Paper Grail_.

                                      Berni

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "John Davis" <john@...>

                                      > Does anyone know of any other authors who write in a similar vein to
                                      > Charles Williams? Aside from Lewis' 'Hideous Strength', I don't know of
                                      > any, which makes coming to the end of the last two of Williams' books
                                      > rather sad...
                                      >
                                      > John
                                    • John Davis
                                      Hi Berni, Thanks for that - I ll give them a try. Although it is probably the non-Christian elements of Williams books that most appeal to me, which is to say
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Feb 17, 2009
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                                        Hi Berni,

                                        Thanks for that - I'll give them a try.

                                        Although it is probably the non-Christian elements of Williams' books that most appeal to me, which is to say that they often seem more spiritual than Christian - the emphasis being on morality rather than church.

                                        John

                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: Berni Phillips
                                        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 8:09 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Charles Williams


                                        You might enjoy the books of Tim Powers. His _Declare_ is the novel which
                                        most shows his Christianity. (He's a Catholic Christian.) All of his
                                        novels are good. Also James Blaylock's novels might be your cup of tea,
                                        particularly _The Paper Grail_.

                                        Berni

                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "John Davis" <john@...>

                                        > Does anyone know of any other authors who write in a similar vein to
                                        > Charles Williams? Aside from Lewis' 'Hideous Strength', I don't know of
                                        > any, which makes coming to the end of the last two of Williams' books
                                        > rather sad...
                                        >
                                        > John




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                                      • Jason Fisher
                                        John, Try Gustav Meyrink s The Golem (1915). It s just one novel and so wouldn t tide you over much, I guess; but to me, it very much has a Charles Williams
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Feb 17, 2009
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                                          John,

                                          Try Gustav Meyrink's The Golem (1915). It's just one novel and so wouldn't tide you over much, I guess; but to me, it very much has a Charles Williams feel. It's kind of a spiritual horror set in the Jewish ghetto of Prague. Borges was a big fan of the novel, but it's been largely forgotten since.

                                          Jason

                                           



                                          ________________________________
                                          From: John Davis <john@...>
                                          To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 3:22:59 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Charles Williams


                                          Hi Berni,

                                          Thanks for that - I'll give them a try.

                                          Although it is probably the non-Christian elements of Williams' books that most appeal to me, which is to say that they often seem more spiritual than Christian - the emphasis being on morality rather than church.

                                          John

                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: Berni Phillips
                                          To: mythsoc@yahoogroups .com
                                          Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 8:09 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Charles Williams

                                          You might enjoy the books of Tim Powers. His _Declare_ is the novel which
                                          most shows his Christianity. (He's a Catholic Christian.) All of his
                                          novels are good. Also James Blaylock's novels might be your cup of tea,
                                          particularly _The Paper Grail_.

                                          Berni

                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: "John Davis" <john@jdavis. co.uk>

                                          > Does anyone know of any other authors who write in a similar vein to
                                          > Charles Williams? Aside from Lewis' 'Hideous Strength', I don't know of
                                          > any, which makes coming to the end of the last two of Williams' books
                                          > rather sad...
                                          >
                                          > John

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                                        • John D Rateliff
                                          In that case, I d suggest you go behind Williams and give Algernon Blackwood s JOHN SILENCE a try. And also Wm Yeats Rosa Alchemica (most easily found,
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Feb 17, 2009
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                                            In that case, I'd suggest you go behind Williams and give Algernon
                                            Blackwood's JOHN SILENCE a try. And also Wm Yeats' "Rosa
                                            Alchemica" (most easily found, with two related tales, in MYTHOLOGIES
                                            [1959]). Some Arthur Machen stories also hover close to that territory.
                                            If it had been the supernatural suspense that hooked you, I'd
                                            have suggested Sax Rohmer.
                                            I don't think there's anybody who's quite like Williams, though.
                                            --John R.

                                            On Feb 17, 2009, at 1:22 AM, John Davis wrote:
                                            > Although it is probably the non-Christian elements of Williams'
                                            > books that most appeal to me, which is to say that they often seem
                                            > more spiritual than Christian - the emphasis being on morality
                                            > rather than church.
                                          • John Davis
                                            Thanks for everyone s suggestions. I ll give them all a try. John ... From: John D Rateliff To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 5:33
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Feb 18, 2009
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                                              Thanks for everyone's suggestions. I'll give them all a try.

                                              John

                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: John D Rateliff
                                              To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 5:33 AM
                                              Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Charles Williams


                                              In that case, I'd suggest you go behind Williams and give Algernon
                                              Blackwood's JOHN SILENCE a try. And also Wm Yeats' "Rosa
                                              Alchemica" (most easily found, with two related tales, in MYTHOLOGIES
                                              [1959]). Some Arthur Machen stories also hover close to that territory.
                                              If it had been the supernatural suspense that hooked you, I'd
                                              have suggested Sax Rohmer.
                                              I don't think there's anybody who's quite like Williams, though.
                                              --John R.

                                              On Feb 17, 2009, at 1:22 AM, John Davis wrote:
                                              > Although it is probably the non-Christian elements of Williams'
                                              > books that most appeal to me, which is to say that they often seem
                                              > more spiritual than Christian - the emphasis being on morality
                                              > rather than church.



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