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Re: [mythsoc] Re: Tolkien and politics (Wagner)

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  • Tony Zbaraschuk
    ... As I recall, they tried to argue that Hagen (the murderer of Siegfrid) was the real hero of Götterdämmerung... Tony Z --
    Message 1 of 5 , Jun 16, 2013
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      On Sun, June 16, 2013 12:20 pm, Margaret L. Carter wrote:
      >

      > <The Nazis also liked Wagner's Ring. What characters would they have
      > identified with in _that_?>
      >
      > C. S. Lewis remarks somewhere that the Nazis radically misread Wagner's
      > Ring cycle -- admiring it for all the wrong reasons.

      As I recall, they tried to argue that Hagen (the murderer of Siegfrid) was
      the real hero of Götterdämmerung...


      Tony Z


      --
    • David Bratman
      ... Well, he does get literally the last word ...
      Message 2 of 5 , Jun 16, 2013
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        -----Original Message-----
        >From: Tony Zbaraschuk <tonyz@...>
        >Sent: Jun 16, 2013 12:54 PM
        >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: Tolkien and politics (Wagner)
        >
        >
        >On Sun, June 16, 2013 12:20 pm, Margaret L. Carter wrote:
        >>
        >
        >> <The Nazis also liked Wagner's Ring. What characters would they have
        >> identified with in _that_?>
        >>
        >> C. S. Lewis remarks somewhere that the Nazis radically misread Wagner's
        >> Ring cycle -- admiring it for all the wrong reasons.
        >
        >As I recall, they tried to argue that Hagen (the murderer of Siegfrid) was
        >the real hero of Götterdämmerung...

        Well, he does get literally the last word ...
      • wendell_wagner
        Politics? I didn t discuss politics in my most recent post. Except . . . oh, you mean . . . well, never mind. Wendell Wagner In a message dated 6/16/2013
        Message 3 of 5 , Jun 16, 2013
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          Politics?  I didn't discuss politics in my most recent post.  Except . . . oh, you mean . . . well, never mind.
           
          Wendell Wagner
           
          In a message dated 6/16/2013 3:20:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mlcvamp@... writes:
           

          <The Nazis also liked Wagner's Ring.  What characters would they have identified 
          with in _that_?>

          C. S. Lewis remarks somewhere that the Nazis radically misread Wagner's Ring cycle -- admiring it for all the wrong reasons.

          Margaret Carter

        • Travis Buchanan
          Here is (to my knowledge) Tolkien s clearest (and most entertaining!) response to the Nazi misappropriation and perversion of the Nordic spirit and myth in
          Message 4 of 5 , Jun 18, 2013
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            Here is (to my knowledge) Tolkien's clearest (and most entertaining!) response to the Nazi misappropriation and perversion of the 'Nordic' spirit and myth in their quest for world domination:

            45 To Michael Tolkien

            9 June 1941

             

            I have spent most of my life, since I was your age, studying Germanic matters (in the general sense that includes England and Scandinavia). There is a great deal more force (and truth) than ignorant people imagine in the ‘Germanic’ ideal. I was much attracted by it as an undergraduate (when Hitler was, I suppose, dabbling in paint, and had not heard of it), in reaction against the ‘Classics’. You have to understand the good in things, to detect the real evil. But no one ever calls on me to ‘broadcast’, or do a postscript! Yet I suppose I know better than most what is the truth about this ‘Nordic’ nonsense. Anyway, I have in this War a burning private grudge—which would probably make me a better soldier at 49 than I was at 22: against that ruddy little ignoramus Adolf Hitler (for the odd thing about demonic inspiration and impetus is that it in no way enhances the purely intellectual stature: it chiefly affects the mere will). Ruining, perverting, misapplying, and making for ever accursed, that noble northern spirit, a supreme contribution to Europe, which I have ever loved, and tried to present in its true light. Nowhere, incidentally, was it nobler than in England, nor more early sanctified and Christianized.


            ​Cheers,​

            Travis


            On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 10:08 PM, <WendellWag@...> wrote:
             

            Politics?  I didn't discuss politics in my most recent post.  Except . . . oh, you mean . . . well, never mind.
             
            Wendell Wagner
             
            In a message dated 6/16/2013 3:20:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mlcvamp@... writes:
             

            <The Nazis also liked Wagner's Ring.  What characters would they have identified 
            with in _that_?>

            C. S. Lewis remarks somewhere that the Nazis radically misread Wagner's Ring cycle -- admiring it for all the wrong reasons.

            Margaret Carter


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