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Re: Tolkien and politics

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  • ernestsdavis
    ... Exactly. ... The politics as well as the racism is off-base. The hobbits, with their elected mayor, are certainly the closest thing in Middle-Earth to a
    Message 1 of 13 , Jun 14, 2013
      --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "David Bratman" <dbratman@...> wrote:
      >

      > Here's a "Tolkien and politics" item I just came upon that's far more
      > disturbing than that: a neo-Nazi film critic who loves the Jackson LOTR:

      > 1.You can't control nutty interpretations of your work.
      Exactly.

      > 4: For instance, if he'd read the book as well as seen the movie of TT, he
      > might have been able to tear his eyes away from the stirring spectacle of an
      > army of handsome white guys defeating an army of ugly not-white guys and
      > notice that the bad guys' commander and instigator was a pasty-white guy
      > played by Christopher Lee.
      > 5. The book might also have clued him in that TT is not a stand-alone story
      > about the Battle of the Hornburg, but part of a larger story with a broader
      > meaning. Specifically, that though the dark guys are evil, evil is
      > emphatically not about being dark.

      The politics as well as the racism is off-base. The hobbits, with their elected mayor, are certainly the closest thing in Middle-Earth to a liberal democracy. The Entmoot also seems to be carried out by vote or by consensus. The Council of Elrond is an ad-hoc international conference, of the kind these guys mostly detest,

      On the other hand, the government that takes over the Shire under Lotho Sackville-Baggins and then under Sharkey is certainly a rather bad-tempered parody of left-wing/Socialist policies, probably specifically of the Labour party --- not my favorite part of the book.

      But, in any case, I don't know to what extent the neo-Nazis are actually interested in Fascism as a form of government; maybe all they care about is the racism anyway.

      > 6. And, as noted by many commentators, that the Dwarves are rather Jewish.

      Including Tolkien himself.
    • David Bratman
      ... True, but just as the neo-Nazis can t tear themselves away from the fine spectacle of the Rohirrim slaughtering orcs to see that those orcs are the tools
      Message 2 of 13 , Jun 14, 2013
        <davise@...> wrote:

        > The politics as well as the racism is off-base. The hobbits, with their
        > elected mayor, are certainly the
        > closest thing in Middle-Earth to a liberal democracy. The Entmoot also
        > seems to be carried out by
        > vote or by consensus.

        True, but just as the neo-Nazis can't tear themselves away from the fine
        spectacle of the Rohirrim slaughtering orcs to see that those orcs are the
        tools of a megalomaniac white guy, they probably can't tear their eyes away
        from the political spectacle of the destined and rightful monarch taking the
        crown.

        > The Council of Elrond is an ad-hoc international conference, of the kind
        > these
        > guys mostly detest.

        I think they would read the Council as Elrond and Gandalf telling everyone
        what to do, and then those people do it. Don't bother to point out flaws in
        that reading; we all know them; but I fancy that's the misreading you'd get.
      • IcelofAngeln
        ... I m not sure what Nazism has to do with monarchism, except in some folks vague sense that they re both right-wing ; the Gestapo had a special office to
        Message 3 of 13 , Jun 15, 2013
          --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "David Bratman" <dbratman@...> wrote:
          >
          > <davise@...> wrote:
          >
          > > The politics as well as the racism is off-base. The hobbits, with their
          > > elected mayor, are certainly the
          > > closest thing in Middle-Earth to a liberal democracy. The Entmoot also
          > > seems to be carried out by
          > > vote or by consensus.
          >
          >the neo-Nazis... probably can't tear their eyes away
          > from the political spectacle of the destined and rightful monarch taking the
          > crown.
          >

          I'm not sure what Nazism has to do with monarchism, except in some folks' vague sense that they're both "right-wing"; the Gestapo had a special office to monitor and control what they termed "reactionaries," and expressing monarchist ideas within earshot of the wrong people could put you in the camps- where in fact almost all the surviving German royal families wound up, if they hadn't left for exile.
        • David Bratman
          You don t have to be so literal. Hitler saw himself as a destined and rightful leader; he d have no trouble identifying with a similarly destined monarch in a
          Message 4 of 13 , Jun 15, 2013
            You don't have to be so literal. Hitler saw himself as a destined and rightful leader; he'd have no trouble identifying with a similarly destined monarch in a fictional story.

            The Nazis also liked Wagner's Ring. What characters would they have identified with in _that_?


            -----Original Message-----
            >From: IcelofAngeln <solicitr@...>
            >Sent: Jun 15, 2013 6:23 AM
            >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: [mythsoc] Re: Tolkien and politics
            >--- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "David Bratman" <dbratman@...> wrote:
            >>
            >>the neo-Nazis... probably can't tear their eyes away
            >> from the political spectacle of the destined and rightful monarch taking the
            >> crown.
            >
            >I'm not sure what Nazism has to do with monarchism, except in some folks' vague sense that they're both "right-wing"; the Gestapo had a special office to monitor and control what they termed "reactionaries," and expressing monarchist ideas within earshot of the wrong people could put you in the camps- where in fact almost all the surviving German royal families wound up, if they hadn't left for exile.
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