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Re: [mythsoc] Tolkien and Musical Parody

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  • Ellen
    Yes--I was talking about Tolkien writing poems to pre-existing tunes, as well as Tolkien using musical parody in its other senses, e.g., writing a poem in the
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 7, 2013
      Yes--I was talking about Tolkien writing poems to pre-existing tunes, as well as Tolkien using musical parody in its other senses, e.g., writing a poem in the same metrical rhythm of or in imitation of another poem or song, or having the text refer to or mirror another song, e.g., "Hey Diddle Diddle."  In musical/poetic terms the word parody is used in its older sense as a transcription of existing material rather than the more common modern usage indicating irony.

      I know I've read at least some references to this regarding Tolkien, though it may not have used the term "musical parody," but where I do not recall.  Any suggestions on where to start looking?

      I would love to read your paper on "Liquid Tolkien--" how would I access it? 

      The whole time I was researching and writing my paper dealing with Goethe's approach to song texts I kept thinking on how similar this was to Tolkien's approach.  I've got a paper idea for Mythcon brewing.

      Ellen Denham



      On 2/6/13 12:24 PM, David Bratman wrote:
       

      "Ellen Denham" carnimiriel@...> wrote:

      > I'm currently pursing a doctorate in music and recently wrote a paper
      > about Goethe and Schubert's relationship (or lack thereof) that dealt
      > with, among other things, the subject of musical parody, e.g., writing a
      > poem to the melodic form of another. I kept thinking how Tolkien did
      > this as well, such as the "Old Troll" song going to the tune of "The Fox
      > Went Out on a Chilly Night."
      >
      > Can anyone point me to sources about Tolkienand musical parody? I know
      > I've read at least a mention of this, but my Tolkien books are in
      > Indianapolis and I am in Urbana.

      You're talking about Tolkien writing poems to fit pre-existing tunes? As
      opposed to other people writing song lyrics about Tolkien to pre-existing
      tunes? I briefly discussed this in regard to the Troll song in my paper on
      "Liquid Tolkien" in Brad Eden's _Middle-Earth Minstrel_. What I did not
      mention was that some of the poems in "Songs for the Philologists" specify
      folk tunes that they are to be sung to.

      David Bratman


    • "Beregond, Anders Stenström"
      ... In _The Chesterton Review_ Vol.XXVIII, Nos.1&2, there is an article by Clive Tolley, Tolkien s Essay on Man : A Look at _Mythopeia_ , about Tolkien in
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 9, 2013
        Ellen wrote:
        > Yes--I was talking about Tolkien writing poems to pre-existing tunes, as
        > well as Tolkien using musical parody in its other senses, e.g., writing
        > a poem in the same metrical rhythm of or in imitation of another poem

        In _The Chesterton Review_ Vol.XXVIII, Nos.1&2, there is an
        article by Clive Tolley, "Tolkien's 'Essay on Man': A Look at
        _Mythopeia_", about Tolkien in his poem "Mythopoeia" using the form
        of Alexander Pope's "Essay on Man" and "Essay on Criticism".
        (There is currently a used copy on Amazon.com.)

        Chivalrously,

        Beregond
      • Ellen
        Thanks, Beregond--this is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for! Ellen Denham ... Thanks, Beregond --this is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for!
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 10, 2013
          Thanks, Beregond--this is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for!

          Ellen Denham

          On 2/9/13 2:07 PM, "Beregond, Anders Stenström" wrote:
           

          Ellen wrote:
          > Yes--I was talking about Tolkien writing poems to pre-existing tunes, as
          > well as Tolkien using musical parody in its other senses, e.g., writing
          > a poem in the same metrical rhythm of or in imitation of another poem

          In _The Chesterton Review_ Vol.XXVIII, Nos.1&2, there is an
          article by Clive Tolley, "Tolkien's 'Essay on Man': A Look at
          _Mythopeia_", about Tolkien in his poem "Mythopoeia" using the form
          of Alexander Pope's "Essay on Man" and "Essay on Criticism".
          (There is currently a used copy on Amazon.com.)

          Chivalrously,

          Beregond


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