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Re: Fw: "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide: Chronology: 1"

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  • stephane_grignon
    Since all of you are asking for some tunes related to Tolkien I just add my voice to ask if someone can help me to find this less serious music found in Ralph
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 15, 2013
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      Since all of you are asking for some tunes related to Tolkien I just add my voice to ask if someone can help me to find this less serious music found in Ralph Bakshi's Lord of the Rings ->
      By Leonard Rosenmann " the man in the moon" sung by Frodo
      My 11 years old girl is fond of this almost lullaby for her in her early evenings.

      Anglin
      (I promess my next post will be more serious)
    • John Rateliff
      ... I have it on record (vinyl) and cassette, but not cds. --John R.
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 15, 2013
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        On Jan 15, 2013, at 6:24 AM, Mich wrote:
        does any one know on this topic of the road go's ever on the Donald swan song scikle if this has ever been put out on cd? and where one might obtain a copy? from Mich.


        I have it on record (vinyl) and cassette, but not cds.
           --John R.

      • Troels Forchhammer
        I have a CD of the songs that came with my copy of the book (the 2002 edition). Looking at the prices on Amazon suggests that the book is now out of print and
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 15, 2013
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          I have a CD of the songs that came with my copy of the book (the 2002 edition). 

          Looking at the prices on Amazon suggests that the book is now out of print and being sold at an insane price second-hand. 

          /Troels


          On 15 January 2013 21:50, John Rateliff <sacnoth@...> wrote:


          On Jan 15, 2013, at 6:24 AM, Mich wrote:
          does any one know on this topic of the road go's ever on the Donald swan song scikle if this has ever been put out on cd? and where one might obtain a copy? from Mich.


          I have it on record (vinyl) and cassette, but not cds.
             --John R.

          --
              Love while you've got
                  love to give.
              Live while you've got
                  life to live.
           - Piet Hein, /Memento Vivere/
        • Sara Ciborski
          I too have this CD, which came with the book. It s wonderful (and mine s not for sale). (long lurking) Sara Ciborski ... -- Sara Ciborski 603-313-2625 655
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 15, 2013
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            I too have this CD, which came with the book. It's wonderful (and mine's not for sale).
            (long lurking) Sara Ciborski

            On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Troels Forchhammer <troelsfo@...> wrote:
             

            I have a CD of the songs that came with my copy of the book (the 2002 edition). 

            Looking at the prices on Amazon suggests that the book is now out of print and being sold at an insane price second-hand. 

            /Troels


            On 15 January 2013 21:50, John Rateliff <sacnoth@...> wrote:


            On Jan 15, 2013, at 6:24 AM, Mich wrote:
            does any one know on this topic of the road go's ever on the Donald swan song scikle if this has ever been put out on cd? and where one might obtain a copy? from Mich.


            I have it on record (vinyl) and cassette, but not cds.
               --John R.

            --
                Love while you've got
                    love to give.
                Live while you've got
                    life to live.
             - Piet Hein, /Memento Vivere/




            --
            Sara Ciborski
            603-313-2625
            655 Gilsum Mine Road
            Alstead, NH 03602
          • John Rateliff
            ... Thanks for that, Troeis. I have a copy of the third edition, which does indeed come with this cd (stuck in the back), which I had completely forgotten
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 16, 2013
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              On Jan 15, 2013, at 2:06 PM, Troels Forchhammer wrote:
              I have a CD of the songs that came with my copy of the book (the 2002 edition). 
              Looking at the prices on Amazon suggests that the book is now out of print and being sold at an insane price second-hand. 
              /Troels


              Thanks for that, Troeis. I have a copy of the third edition, which does indeed come with this cd (stuck in the back), which I had completely forgotten about. So I dug it out and listened to it for the first time today.
                 I'm sorry to say Wm Elvin's singing is no better than I remembered. Somehow I can't suspend my disbelief that Sam found a piano in Cirith Ungol to accompany himself for "In Western Lands". Though still the Treebeard song remains my favorite.
                 The second edition of the book had added "Bilbo'd Last Song" to the eight in the original; the cd in this third edition includes a recording of this song by Swann himself, whose vocals I much prefer to Elvin's. It has a spoken-word intro by Swann wh. makes me regret all the more that he wasn't able to perform the song-cycle at the 1992 Centennial Conference.
                 There's also a new, tenth, song on the cd: "Luthien Tinuviel", from THE SILMARILLION, sung by Clive McCombie (in the same unfortunately style of Elvin). 


              On Jan 15, 2013, at 8:23 AM, stephane_grignon wrote:
              Since all of you are asking for some tunes related to Tolkien I just add my voice to ask if someone can help me to find this less serious music found in Ralph Bakshi's Lord of the Rings ->
              By Leonard Rosenmann " the man in the moon" sung by Frodo
              My 11 years old girl is fond of this almost lullaby for her in her early evenings. 

              Don't know the answer to that one: it's not on the soundtrack cd, which is all-instrumental. 
            • David Bratman
              ... Tolkien liked his name, but he s not a very good singer: stiff and inexpressive. Every other performance of the cycle I ve heard (all live; I don t know
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 16, 2013
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                "John Rateliff" <sacnoth@...> wrote:

                >I'm sorry to say Wm Elvin's singing is no better than I remembered.

                Tolkien liked his name, but he's not a very good singer: stiff and
                inexpressive. Every other performance of the cycle I've heard (all live; I
                don't know of any other recordings) I've liked better.

                >Somehow I can't suspend my disbelief that Sam found a piano in Cirith Ungol
                >to accompany himself for "In Western Lands".

                Swann has gotten a lot of unjustified criticism for this. Except for
                "Namarie", for which he used Tolkien's own melody, Swann's songs shouldn't
                be thought of as the "actual" music of the secondary world, but as Swann's
                own artistic responses to Tolkien's poetry, in the manner of art songs by
                the likes of Schubert on down.
              • John Davis
                Peter Jackson has gotten a lost of unjustified criticism...Except for occasional moments where he used Tolkien s own words, Jackson s films shouldn t be
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 17, 2013
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                  Peter Jackson has gotten a lost of unjustified criticism...Except for occasional moments where he used Tolkien's own words, Jackson's films shouldn't be thought of as the 'actual' representation of the secondary world, but as Jackson's own artistic responses to Tolkien's books.
                   
                  Disclaimer: that was a joke. A joke, I tell you. Insert smiley faces and multiple exclamation marks if necessary. It absolutely wasn't intended to rekindle the tired old debate.
                   
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 6:54 AM
                  Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Fw: "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide: Chronology: 1"

                   

                  "John Rateliff" sacnoth@...> wrote:

                  >I'm sorry to say Wm Elvin's singing is no better than I remembered.

                  Tolkien liked his name, but he's not a very good singer: stiff and
                  inexpressive. Every other performance of the cycle I've heard (all live; I
                  don't know of any other recordings) I've liked better.

                  >Somehow I can't suspend my disbelief that Sam found a piano in Cirith Ungol
                  >to accompany himself for "In Western Lands".

                  Swann has gotten a lot of unjustified criticism for this. Except for
                  "Namarie", for which he used Tolkien's own melody, Swann's songs shouldn't
                  be thought of as the "actual" music of the secondary world, but as Swann's
                  own artistic responses to Tolkien's poetry, in the manner of art songs by
                  the likes of Schubert on down.

                • John Davis
                  A joke with added typo, sadly. Sigh. lost=lot. Obviously. ... From: John Davis To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 3:10 PM Subject:
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 17, 2013
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                    A joke with added typo, sadly. Sigh. lost=lot. Obviously.
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 3:10 PM
                    Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Fw: "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide: Chronology: 1"

                     

                    Peter Jackson has gotten a lost of unjustified criticism...Except for occasional moments where he used Tolkien's own words, Jackson's films shouldn't be thought of as the 'actual' representation of the secondary world, but as Jackson's own artistic responses to Tolkien's books.
                     
                    Disclaimer: that was a joke. A joke, I tell you. Insert smiley faces and multiple exclamation marks if necessary. It absolutely wasn't intended to rekindle the tired old debate.
                     
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 6:54 AM
                    Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Fw: "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide: Chronology: 1"

                     

                    "John Rateliff" sacnoth@...> wrote:

                    >I'm sorry to say Wm Elvin's singing is no better than I remembered.

                    Tolkien liked his name, but he's not a very good singer: stiff and
                    inexpressive. Every other performance of the cycle I've heard (all live; I
                    don't know of any other recordings) I've liked better.

                    >Somehow I can't suspend my disbelief that Sam found a piano in Cirith Ungol
                    >to accompany himself for "In Western Lands".

                    Swann has gotten a lot of unjustified criticism for this. Except for
                    "Namarie", for which he used Tolkien's own melody, Swann's songs shouldn't
                    be thought of as the "actual" music of the secondary world, but as Swann's
                    own artistic responses to Tolkien's poetry, in the manner of art songs by
                    the likes of Schubert on down.

                  • David Bratman
                    ... If it wasn t meant to do so, you shouldn t have said it. There s one big difference above all. Swann s musical setting is just one among many. It s not
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jan 17, 2013
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                      John Davis wrote:

                      >Peter Jackson has gotten a lost of unjustified
                      >criticism...Except for occasional moments where he used Tolkien's own
                      >words,
                      >Jackson's films shouldn't be thought of as the 'actual' representation of
                      >the
                      >secondary world, but as Jackson's own artistic responses to Tolkien's
                      >books.
                      >
                      >Disclaimer: that was a joke. A joke, I tell
                      >you. Insert smiley faces and multiple exclamation marks if necessary. It
                      >absolutely wasn't intended to rekindle the tired old debate.


                      If it wasn't meant to do so, you shouldn't have said it.

                      There's one big difference above all. Swann's musical setting is just one
                      among many. It's not being widely touted as the incarnation of every
                      Tolkien fan's dream to hear his poetry set to music, acclaimed as
                      rejuvenating a tired old book, etc etc.

                      If Jackson's movie were just one of a dozen or more dramatic interpretations
                      of Tolkien out in the marketplace, and none of them got any particular
                      hoopla, I'd be delighted to offer my own particular opinion of its merits
                      (which I do not consider to be zero), listen to others' opinions, and leave
                      it at that, which is what we do with the Tolkien music. And also what we do
                      with Tolkien fan fiction and movies: "The Hunt for Gollum" four years ago
                      got a certain amount of abuse, but even those who liked it didn't try to
                      defend it with the rapture that Jackson's defenders brought to it.

                      I would be DELIGHTED if Jackson fans treated his work as an entirely
                      separate work of art whose only connection to Tolkien's was that Jackson was
                      artistically inspired by him. And, indeed, scholarly articles on Jackson
                      that make no reference to Tolkien, or that compare the two the way they'd
                      compare Tolkien to any other similar author, are making their appearance.

                      The only objections that I'm making, and that I have made all along, are to
                      the claim that Jackson's movies do fairly incarnate the book, and to the
                      contradictory (but sometimes made by the same people) claim that if they
                      don't, they were forced not to by commercial considerations. See my article
                      in "Tolkien on Film" nearly a decade ago, which has those as its two
                      headings. If I don't personally like the movies very much, I have
                      absolutely no objection to other people liking them more.
                    • Doug Kane
                      John, I thought it was funny (and I read lot for lost). From: John Davis Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 7:12 AM To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jan 17, 2013
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                        John, I thought it was funny (and I read lot for lost).

                        Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 7:12 AM
                        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Fw: "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide: Chronology: 1"

                         

                        A joke with added typo, sadly. Sigh. lost=lot. Obviously.
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 3:10 PM
                        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Fw: "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide: Chronology: 1"

                         

                        Peter Jackson has gotten a lost of unjustified criticism...Except for occasional moments where he used Tolkien's own words, Jackson's films shouldn't be thought of as the 'actual' representation of the secondary world, but as Jackson's own artistic responses to Tolkien's books.
                         
                        Disclaimer: that was a joke. A joke, I tell you. Insert smiley faces and multiple exclamation marks if necessary. It absolutely wasn't intended to rekindle the tired old debate.
                         
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 6:54 AM
                        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Fw: "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide: Chronology: 1"

                         

                        "John Rateliff" sacnoth@...> wrote:

                        >I'm sorry to say Wm Elvin's singing is no better than I remembered.

                        Tolkien liked his name, but he's not a very good singer: stiff and
                        inexpressive. Every other performance of the cycle I've heard (all live; I
                        don't know of any other recordings) I've liked better.

                        >Somehow I can't suspend my disbelief that Sam found a piano in Cirith Ungol
                        >to accompany himself for "In Western Lands".

                        Swann has gotten a lot of unjustified criticism for this. Except for
                        "Namarie", for which he used Tolkien's own melody, Swann's songs shouldn't
                        be thought of as the "actual" music of the secondary world, but as Swann's
                        own artistic responses to Tolkien's poetry, in the manner of art songs by
                        the likes of Schubert on down.

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